The whole chest thumping thing isn't my style either and no doubt my neighbor isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, but hey he was trying to protect his kid. And I guess a red laser dot shining in your living room would entail a presumption that there might be weapons involved, and so my neighbor should have just called the police I'll grant. But I'm glad he didn't. I don't like police knocking on my door. I'm not sure why--probably an irrational phobia of cops. So, enduring his bombast was a small price to pay for a copless evening I figure. Too bad that was our first encounter.

But, when it comes to neighbors, I'm of the philosophy that it's good to keep your friends close to you--and your enemies even closer. It's best to stay in the neighborhood gossip's good graces, for example, if you can. It turns out my neighbor and I have at least one mutual friend; he said he'd smooth things over. I plan to make nice and not give the neighbor the cold shoulder so he'll feel free to talk to me personally if there are ever any other issues.

But my basic point is that the flavor of some of the earlier posts makes me want to say that when considering whether to call the cops or not, ask yourself, "Am I just being an internet geek whose ability to socially interact with real people has atrophied to point where I'm terrified at the very idea of meeting my neighbors, or is this truly an emergency that requires the cops--who, after all, have an important job to do that they can't do when they're responding to nonemergencies." Neighbors do everybody a favor when they can settle their differences without involving the authorities.

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Fitting a three-parameter curve of uncertain form to ten points with three exceptions certainly brings one to the far edge of the known world. -- Bradley Ephron

there's a second lesson here--there's a reason astronomers keep saying, "laser pointers are not toys"! There was a thread or two on this forum discussing laser pointer safety, in fact. One rule is, never let children use them. Another is, don't shine into traffic (not that there was any when she lighted up the sign, but that's still kind of asking for it). You can actually go to jail if you shine a laser pointer on a moving vehicle, including airplanes flying overhead.

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Todd (Bowie, MD, US, North America, Earth, Sol System, Vega region, Local Bubble, Orion arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Virgo A Cluster, Virgo supercluster, the universe in which spock is clean shaven)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

personal page: http://blog.astrosketches.info

Point taken. . . .

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Fitting a three-parameter curve of uncertain form to ten points with three exceptions certainly brings one to the far edge of the known world. -- Bradley Ephron

I think one point that others have tried to make is that when the neighbors are screeming at each other at the top of their lungs they have already gone past the point where rational talk works well as a means of communication.

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An emperor without enemies, a king without a kingdom, supported in life by the willing tribute of a free people.

I'm saying that even when it's reached that point, the situation can still be salvaged by skillful diplomacy. And think about it this way: is not calling the cops is a form of violence? How is having some dark suited thugs with guns compel somebody to do something you want them to do different from you just going out with your own guns and muscles and leather jackets and compelling them yourself?

And BTW, I ran to my neighbor in the local tavern today. I went right up to him and talked to him in person, we've shook hands over the deal. And sure enough, I've found out that "Timmy" has a reputation in this small town for a tendency to a little overzealousness every now and then. But now we're allies instead of enemies.

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Fitting a three-parameter curve of uncertain form to ten points with three exceptions certainly brings one to the far edge of the known world. -- Bradley Ephron

Probably because the police actually have a legal right to come in and do such things. You most certainly don't, especially with firearms, especially once you enter onto another person's property, where they will almost certainly have the legal right to respond to any threats you make with deadly force themselves (especially if you happen to have a weapon, firearm or otherwise).

Using a weapon in self-defense is not the same thing as using a weapon to stop 2 neighbors from arguing loudly just because they woke you up. It's not even close.

As to the OP, I would say you did the right thing. 3:00am isn't the right time to be arguing, especially loud enough for other people to be woken up by. As a very light sleeper myself, I used to get VERY angry when I was woken up by noisy neighbors when I lived in an apartment. I would also recommend filing a complaint with your landlord. If they keep it up, they might end up getting kicked out and you won't have to deal with them anymore.

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DOOM Master

The police are dark suited thugs?

I like the police, personally. It's their job to stand between me and anarchy, and I dislike even the thought of anarchy and would not do very well when caught up in the real thing. This makes me seemingly unusual for graduates of my alma mater--everyone always forgets the older students and only remembers the young, stupid ones--but I remember, if no one else does, that Ted Bundy hunted our campus at least once, and it was police who caught him. And on routine traffic stops two of the three times, at that.

The reason it is better to call a cop than handle it yourself is that a cop is an authority figure, and that has a tendency (unless you're dealing with stupid Greeners) to defuse the situation. Your neighbour who has no compunctions about hitting you for interfering with his beating up his wife will probably react differently to the cop.

Further, I don't really think that shouting matches can generally be resolved by skillful diplomacy. I think that, by the time it's elevated to shouting, most people have stopped listening anyway.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

I take it you've never been battered about by a gang of policemen; so rewatch the Rodney King video, and you'll see what I mean.

My point is that calling the police is an act of violence, plain and simple. The legality or nonlegality and the justification or nonjustification of such a move are utterly irrelevant. Therefore, make sure you are ethically justified to perform violence before you call the police, because you will be performing violence even if it is someone else who is doing your dirty work for you.

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Fitting a three-parameter curve of uncertain form to ten points with three exceptions certainly brings one to the far edge of the known world. -- Bradley Ephron

All of them?You know, anarchy could work, but it would depend on massive individual commitments to be real with everybody else. Huh? That's an interesting choice of words: so ordinary deer hunters are engaged in the same activity as Ted Bundy. Yeah, but way too late--and think about the fact that there might have been another routine traffic stop that could have got him sooner, but didn't because the cop who might have got him was busy instead on another call by someone whining about their noisy neighbors instead of about serial killers.

That's a good point: you can try to beat up your neighbor and you will probably succeed; but you can never beat up the cops and come out on top.

Think about what you just said: you just said that nonviolent shouting requires a violent response--mediated by the police, albeit, but it remains a violent response nevertheless.

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Fitting a three-parameter curve of uncertain form to ten points with three exceptions certainly brings one to the far edge of the known world. -- Bradley Ephron

Ok, I'm sorry...

I just had this Gary Larsonesque image in my head of Ted Bundy on a campus in a deer stand. He's got a little whistle that when he blows into it- it makes a female voice shouting, "HELP! I spilled my beer all over my mini skirt!"

That's not anarchy. Anarchy stops being anarchy the moment there is any cooperation whatsoever between individuals. Psychologists have gone a long way towards demonstrating experimentally that anarchy cannot exist in human populations. Even firmly controlled artificial anarchies where communication isn't permitted would invariably evolve into small pockets of cooperation and alliance.

What you're describing is communism.

(What the 1950s era Soviets did wasn't communism any more than what we do is democracy. "A rose by any other name...")

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Calling the police is an act of violence? Really?

Yeah, okay. That is an irrational attitude.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

LAPD, at your disservice.

Also, the New Orleans police department was one of the worst in the nation before the flood hit, which is why the badge boy shinannigans once the levees broke utterly unsurprised me. This was the same goon squad that took a woman in for a traffic stop, strip searched her, then let her sit in a cell overnight. And it really was nothing but a stop sign violation. Oh, and there's the NOPD story about the cop who robbed a carry out joint, shot the guy and his son in the head execution style, THEN had the temerity to show up when the wife called the cops afterwards.

Real heroes, aren't they?

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I'm not completely heartless, the doctor who removed it told me he'd never be able to get it all.

It brings to mind the short story by Niven, "Cloak of Anarchy" in which Niven illustrates one of Niven's Laws: "Anarchy is the least stable system". The story is about a park that is close to anarchy--robot cops keep things from deteriorating. Then a hacker figures out how to disable the cops, and it really was anarchy...for maybe an hour or so till the toughest made themselves gang leaders.

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Todd (Bowie, MD, US, North America, Earth, Sol System, Vega region, Local Bubble, Orion arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Virgo A Cluster, Virgo supercluster, the universe in which spock is clean shaven)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

personal page: http://blog.astrosketches.info

I have had the pleasure of neighbours from hell 3 times and sold my house 3 time to get away from it. Twice my car was attacked for calling the police when they started threatening me and destroying my property.The third time I couldnt stand hearing the woman being beaten to a pulp day after day, even when the police arrested he man she took him back and it would be quiet for a week! But it would start again, the last thing he said to me when the police took him away was that I needed a guy like him to put me in my place!!! I told him he was welcome to try and all he had to do was knock on my door! Needless to say he never did, nor did he make eyecontact with me ever again afterwards. I sold my house after that and have been lucky for the last 6 years, but!!! Alas it was not to last! Recently a elderly neighbour diead and the people who were left the house have rented it out, the house is 3 away from mine but have a right of way down my drive way! I tried to be polite and welcomed the people to the street and always said goodmorning and all of a sudden I was being ignored!!! 8months later a relative of the person liveing in the rented house started shouting abuse at me regarding my German perantage attacked one of my elderly cat and started threatening me!!! It goes on, it is being delt with by the police as these people have also been intimidateing my other elderly neighbours who I shop for and take to hospital appointments. The only conclusion is that this is a sign of the times and there are more and more people like this, who just dont have any respect for others or self respect and are ignorant so n so's. I will not be selling up and moveing away, I am sitting tight as I will not be intimidated again and I have spine to help my neighbours,with the help of the police. (mind they alway turn up 24hrs later and take forever to help)
If you rent then look to move! The affect of liveing with the stress and noise will effect you, as it has made me very intolerant of noise and of people.

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Suaviter in modo, fortiter in re.

Varium et mutabile semper foemina.

Is it? I can think of several others, not least that you've just been unlucky in a few of your neighbours. When I was in the dorms my junior year in college, I had one really awful roommate, and I remember things about her vividly. But the other three were really great. Saying that the evil one was a sign of the times despite the three good ones is just as unfair as saying that one person in your neighbourhood who is a jerk is a sign of the times.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"