I just dont get it!?

Iv heard this guy bad mouth Phil on almost every show hes on..!

Shermer, Shostak and the other guys are doing it.

Why dont Phil just shut him up??


Anyone..?

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I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

How is the BA supposed to shut up Hoagland?

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Debate?

The BA has addressed that. Hoagland fallout: email I've received

Deja vu!

Didn't you already ask this? What was unclear about the previous answers?

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That's because he's mean. (RCH, I mean, not Phil)

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"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek
"Carl Sagan sent a message to ET,
Neil Armstrong walked in the Sea of Tranquility
Steve Squyers built Spirit and Opportunity
Dan Haylen upchucked in zero gravity." -Brent Simon, The Space Camp Song

RCH has a right to whatever he says and thinks, no matter how nasty, mean, false, or ridiculous it is. Doesn't mean we have to do anything more than point and laugh. Or, preferably, just ignore him.

Phil is right: giving RCH an audience is just counter-productive.

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Starry, starry night...

My site TheSpacewriter.com
and my blog: TheSpaceWriter's Ramblings

To those with working brains, Hoaxland's attacks say much more about him than Phil.

Those who want to believe Hoaxland's claims, won't be convinced by facts.

"Never argue with idiots. You will get dragged down to their level, then they will beat you with their experience"

Indeed. As they say on the playground:
"Twinkle, twinkle, little star
What you say is what you are."

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"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek
"Carl Sagan sent a message to ET,
Neil Armstrong walked in the Sea of Tranquility
Steve Squyers built Spirit and Opportunity
Dan Haylen upchucked in zero gravity." -Brent Simon, The Space Camp Song

I recall seeing it stated that it is like wrestling with a pig. You'll get all dirty, and it makes the pig mad.

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"I'm as accurate as any psychic. And I'm a cartoon!" -- Squidward

"Arrrgh, the laws of physics be a harsh mistress!" -- Bender

Depending on the 'pig' that might be kinda fun...

Hey there Neverfly. I know who Hoagland is but I am not familiar with Phil and what is Hoagland saying about him? First time in this neighborhood, not familiar with the controversy. Do you have time to give me a quick update sir--tnx-joe

He's the guy who thinks Martians built pyramids and The Man* is covering it up.
*Not The Man as in "George Lucas is The Man", The Man as in "The Man is keeping me down" .

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"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek
"Carl Sagan sent a message to ET,
Neil Armstrong walked in the Sea of Tranquility
Steve Squyers built Spirit and Opportunity
Dan Haylen upchucked in zero gravity." -Brent Simon, The Space Camp Song

I'm not sure why I get asked to be spokesperson but...

Richard Hoagland is a believer of the strange... He promotes ideas such as Trans or Hyper-dimensional physics (a fancy name given to a bit of trigonometry that is more pareidolia than mathematics. It outlines a general chart and then looks for ANY clue within it that suggests that ANY event might be inter-related with any other event.) Martian Life and Martian civilizations, conspiracies to cover up the knowledge of any of this, and often sees clues or images of things that aren't really there.
His website is here.
His list of pareidolia includes seeing:
Tanks on Mars
Robots on the moon (or pieces of them)
The Martian face
Martian buildings and fossils
A white bunny on mars that the rover ran over (probably a millimeters long piece of insulation from the lander)

Phil is Phil Plait, a.k.a. The Bad Astronomer, founder of the Bad Astronomy Blog and BABB and Co founder with Fraser Cain of BAUT.
His blog debunks Hoaglands rather imaginative to outrageous claims using the known principles of pareidolia, actual facts, physics, mathematics and scientific scrutiny.

Phil Plait promotes scientific reasoning, critical thinking and knowledge.
Hoagland's speaking out against Phil Plait for rather obvious reasons.
His proposals require a lot of imagination and little evidence or scientific reasoning. Anyone that takes away the imaginative focus also takes away the meat and substance from Hoaglands claims. Since Phil does that, he comes under fire from Hoagland.

Also, debunking Hoagland's rather substantial fantasies also reduces the amount of money he can talk people out of to support his "research." As with many other endeavors where people are asked to believe seven impossible things before breakfast AND pay money to help support the "selfless" purveyors of such claims, you can kind of see why they might find it lucrative to bash those who would shine some light on their endeavors. Phil shines light. Hoagland doesn't like that light.

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Starry, starry night...

My site TheSpacewriter.com
and my blog: TheSpaceWriter's Ramblings

Hey, thanks man. I chose you because you seem less informed than most of the members. Wanted to give you a little shot of self esteem. I'm just like that you know. I think my greatest attribute is probably my modesty. Thanks again friend, hope I could make you feel better about yourself--joe

Yeah...

I feel great. Fantastic.


I've never been happier to be the least informed person in a crowd.

I thinking that was a joke, Neverfly

Pete

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PJE

There's so much I don't know about astrophysics. I wish I had read that book by that wheelchair guy.

Now wait just a minute, fun is fun but do not be tampering with my patented self description--I have it on good authority that I am the least informed person in the crowd. Haven't you been reading my posts man!! Step off buddy--joe

I do tend to trample at times...

weird

over here in australia (where we all have shrimps on the barby and kangaroos hopping down the main streets of sydney apparently lol) ive always heard that saying as `Dont wrestle with a pig in mud, you get all dirty and the pig enjoys it'

weird how these things change depending on where you are...

personally i think `our' version makes more sense- another saying ive always heard since i was a kid was `happy as a pig in mud' (being the family friendly version- i think you can guess the other equally common version...)

`angry as a pig in mud' just sounds so wrong....

;-)

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Surely if you are going to start a conspiracy theory it is best to start with something that might have a grain of truth or reality in it. To start with the preposterous and go downhill from there is just stupid. steve(primus) (Avatar)