The thread title is something I saw on a T-shirt once. I was reminded of it yesterday as I watched John Stewart on the "Daily Show" describe Second Life as "populated by millions of people who do not have first life".

"You have no life!" or, much more often, "He/she/they have no life!" (it's rarely said to one's face) is a sentiment aimed at people who spend their time doing something unusual and/or geeky. Presumably, anyone expressing such sentiment "has a life". Which make me wonder: what does "having a life" mean, and who, by the definition of "You have no life!" people has it?

It is probably safe to assume that if your job takes you to exotic places, you "have a life". If your job involves entering burning buildings, freezing on a boat deck, or ducking explosions in Iraq, you also "have a life". If you work at the office and jump out of planes for fun, you "have a life" too. It is easy to come up with more similar examples. Yet people who do such things are a small minority, even among "You have no life!" crowd. So what exactly do people expressing this sentiment do to make them think they have a life while someone at an SCA convention wearing a chainmail he made by hand does not? Or, per John Stewart's example, someone who builds and sells property in Second Life (a considerable source of income for some people)? Or collects stamps, for that matter?

Or is it just a sign of insecurity?

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Fiction has to be plausible. Reality is under no such constraint.

In my humble opinion, not having "a life" means not having a well rounded intrests to the point where it negativly impacts your ability to interact with and sometimes even empathize with others.

To use one of your examples: While I was never a member of the Society for Creative Anachronisms (SCA) my girlfriend (now wife) was. I went to many events, dressed in garb, and had a grand old time with many of the quite cool people there. However, I also saw many people who were members of the Society for Compulsive Authenticity who's devotion to their playing resulted in damaged relationships and poor health.

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Carl Matherly

Offical Battlestar Galactica Apologist

Named Time Magazine's 2006 "Person of the Year"

I heard a story, possibly apocryphal, about someone who actually committed suicide at Pennsic War (the world's largest SCA event) because he'd rather die in the SCA than live in the real world. That is not having a life. Also pretty serious mental illness, I should think. Hope, actually--I'd hate to think a mentally healthy person would think that way; I find it unlikely, though.

I spend a lot of time online, and I have a lot of friends online. I still don't think it's a reasonable substitute for all face-to-face human interaction. I'm going to hang out with an actual live human in about an hour, for example.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Yesterday, as I was stepping out to lunch from work, I ran into a thick crowd of people. The reason they were there is that certain celebrities live in apartments located in the same building as my company's main office. Apparently, just before lunchtime, a number of vehicles drove up to the building and unloaded a large number of suitcases. Rumors quickly spread that the celebrities are coming home to their apartment, resulting in a large gathering of people hoping to catch a glimpse of the celebs. My first thought was "people, get a life!" Now, I wasn't thinking that all these people need to go to exotic places or do exotic things. I just thought there were many more meaningful things these people could've been doing (go have lunch with friends; go for a stroll in the park to enjoy the beautiful weather we had yesterday; heck, go back to work), as standing in place anxiously waiting to catch a glimpse of a celebrity figure ranks rather low on my "meaningfulness" scale.

An hour later, when I got back to work from lunch, many of the same people were still rooted in place, still hoping for their glimpse of celebrity.

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"It's over you head now. Time to get some professional help." - My fortune cookie from lunch

Ned Wright's Cosmology Tutorial

Usenet Physics FAQ

To me, having a life means being grounded in the real world regardless of your job or hobbies.

Some people seem to want to spend all of their time and creative energy on escapist fantasy. There's nothing wrong with being interested in gaming, movies, science (or regular) fiction, celebrities, etc. However, if it becomes an all-consuming obscession then someone needs to get a life (in the real world).

For example, it's perfectly OK to like "Star Trek" but if learning Klingon is more important than interacting with your family or coworkers, you may have a problem dealing with reality.

That's where I disagree. Obviously to you standing for hours hoping to catch a glimpse of a celebrity is stupid. To me it is also stupid. If I were forced to do it, I'd be bored. But the people you are describing were not bored. They felt they were getting something valuable -- otherwise they would not be doing it! If they caught that glimpse, they left very happy -- and even if they did not, they probably felt like a birdwatcher (or a hunter) who failed to spot a rare bird: "No dice today, but still worth a try!"

My point is, different people value radically different things. Some spend thousands of dollars on a century-old stamp I never heard of. Others spend hundreds of hours trying to catch a glimpse of a bird I never heard of. Someone I met spent $30,000 and untold amount of time just to determine the identity of a particular sunken submarine. To each of them, what they get is valuable, and makes their lives meaningful. The only way to "have no life", as far as I am concerned, is to spend your time NOT doing anything you care about, and being bored. Someone who plays Dungeons & Dragons every night has a life. Someone who mopes at home wishing he were playing Dungeons & Dragons really does not.

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Fiction has to be plausible. Reality is under no such constraint.

Such person probably should not have a family to begin with.

What if someone's obssession with his (real world) airplane interferes with his family -- most likely financially? He IS "grounded" in reality, just a different part of it. If it gets so bad that his wife divorces him, obviously the plane was more important to him than the wife. Do you know any such cases, BTW?

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Fiction has to be plausible. Reality is under no such constraint.

Yes, I agree. I only meant to answer your question from the OP, which I interpreted as asking what people personally consider meaningful/"having a life", using a real-life example that immediately came to mind when I read it. I did not mean to say that everyone must adopt my standard of what is meaningful and what is not, what constitutes "having a life" and what does not.

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"It's over you head now. Time to get some professional help." - My fortune cookie from lunch

Ned Wright's Cosmology Tutorial

Usenet Physics FAQ

Yes, yes, Andromeda321 has been telling us for years, now. ?

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Ditto. As for Second Life, frankly...

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What brings us together is stronger than what pulls us apart

I think that when someone says somebody else "Has no life", what they're really saying is they "Have no [social] life". And since internet-based social lives are not seen by the mainstream as the same as regular social lives (personally, I think it falls between no social contact and "face to face" social contact), people who spend all their time online, or at home, or away in a cubicle somewhere "have no life".

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I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
"In order to increase awareness of the homeless, security have been given binoculars."

What if someone's obssession with his (real world) airplane interferes with his family -- most likely financially? He IS "grounded" in reality, just a different part of it. If it gets so bad that his wife divorces him, obviously the plane was more important to him than the wife. Do you know any such cases, BTW?

I've heard of some pilots catching AIDS (Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome) but offhand, I don't know any of them personally. I do remember an interview of Burt Rutan in the late 1970s. He said his wife gave him an ultimatum of "the airplanes or me." It should be obvious which choice he made and thank goodness he did! Airplanes weren't just his passion, they were his career.

This isn't about the choice of one's hobby, but rather about obsessive compulsive behavior. It doesn't matter what form that obsession takes. If it's harmful to a person's overall wellbeing, it's harmful.

I'm a hopeless romantic, but one that beats to a very non-conventional drum.

I think the idea of a couple learning (LotR) Elvish for privacy in public, for pillow-talk, for day to day communication knowing full well they're going through such a huge effort to learn a language they will only ever use with each other, knowing they can already communicate using more mundane means may be one of the most romantic couple-projects I've ever heard of.

If I'm very, very lucky, and I mean _very_ lucky, I'll find some woman who thinks that's a really good idea.

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And you, to whom adversity has dealt the final blow
With smiling [faces] lyin' to ye' everywhere ye' go
Turn to, and put out all your strength of arm and heart and brain
And like the Mary Ellen Carter, rise again.

I think the idea of a couple learning (LotR) Elvish for privacy in public, for pillow-talk, for day to day communication knowing full well they're going through such a huge effort to learn a language they will only ever use with each other, knowing they can already communicate using more mundane means may be one of the most romantic couple-projects I've ever heard of.

Done as a couple project, that sounds like a fun and romantic idea. Studying Elvish instead of talking to your wife isn't a good idea. I agree that obscession and a lack of balance in life's priorities is a formula for unhappiness.

To me, the people who need to "get a life" are those who withdraw from reality into a fantasy world where their life doesn't suck. By day, they may have jobs they hate (or no job at all) and they may still be living in their parents' basements. By night, they're superheros in a fantasy game.

With the exception of those with severe medical problems, our lives are pretty much what we make them. Don't like your life? Work to improve it, don't withdraw from reality.

I always go with "I have a life, it just involves different interests than yours."

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I want to go back to the moon.
I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

I've only heard this in one context from one sort of person: people who go to bars and dance clubs and use "recreational" drugs (including legal ones) and basicly try to live the VH1/MTV "party hardy" lifestyle, attacking someone else for not doing that. So the meaning they're using it for is pretty simple: "life" = loud dance parties and drugs.

Given the fact that it's always used in hostility, I've always taken it as a sign that they actually secretly find their prescribed lifestyle as empty, pointless, fake, and unsatisfying as I would. If they were really having as much fun with their definition of "life" as they say, then talking about it and trying to get someone else involved in it would make them cheerful, not hostile.

A good friend of mine often tells me to "be who I am, not who others think you should be", or words to that effect.

Perhaps if you gain some significant measure of satisfaction from being who you are, then you have a life.

If you're asking what SCA is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society...ve_Anachronism

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Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

Yes. Next question.

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
"The Mayan symbol for "book" looks a lot like a triple hamburger, but I've never seen them claiming it as proof the Mayans had Big Macs." - KaiYeves
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

Having a life has nothing to do with excitement, what job you might have, one's experiences, etc.

That's bunk. Pure bunk.

Trust me. I've been there. Done that. Seen the world (30+ countries). Flown airplanes. Been an engineer, IT guy, published author, husband and father.

Whoopee. If you want to "go for it," then go for it! I did! Lot's of excitement, adventure and fame.

But that's not my life.

My life involves spending as much time with my son (family), and friends as I can. If, right now, someone were to say "you're to spend the rest of your days in a log cabin, taking care of it, providing for those you love, and you'll work hard doing it, sometimes with an aching back at the end of the day," I'd say, "That sounds good to me, provided I get to spend at least a couple of hours with the people that I love.

That's life.

Of course, having enough food on the table is nice...

Being the big time rebel and hippie I am, I don't think there's anything wrong with someone spending all his or her time in an escapist fantasy if doing so isn't hurting anyone. Marriage isn't for everyone, and neither is parenthood. Some people know they want to spend all their time on one thing, whether it's their airplane or SCA, or know they don't want to be "tied down" to serious responsibilities, so they stay single by choice to concentrate on the activity they love. Personally, I think it's worse when someone lies to him or her self and does what society thinks he or she should do when that really is not what the person wants deep down. Interestingly, Mozart led what many would consider a very "unbalanced" life. He was not very adept socially, died penniless, and focused all his attention on composing music, to the point of obsession. Creative types can be like that, and sometimes it can lead to beautiful contributions enjoyed by generations. There is a tradeoff, and we need to be careful about making judgments.

My mantra is the philosophy of the Margaret Mead character in "Hair." "Be free; no guilt; be whoever you are; do whatever you want, as long as you don't hurt anybody."

Yes, thanks---Medievalists!

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*

Having a life means being satisfied enough with your life to ignore someone who tells you to "get a life".

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
"The Mayan symbol for "book" looks a lot like a triple hamburger, but I've never seen them claiming it as proof the Mayans had Big Macs." - KaiYeves
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

A life is a big pain in the butt. Seriously folks.

Ok, so back during fall-back of '07, I was invited by the girl I was dating at the time(which later would be a girlfriend) to go out to downtown Fullerton. So they got into a club, being a group of girls, but I had to wait outside like an idiot because I was a guy. So they paid the bouncer to let me in. I was only going to stay until around midnight, but she got hammered and I had to stay a bit more until she sobered up. So, me, her her friend and the dudes her friend met while out, went to a Denny's at about 1 to 2am in the morning. Her friend, who was Sihk Indian, got a call and a visit from her brother, who then beat her in the parking lot because she was out late. So, I end up driving my date back to her car, so we can drive to her friend's place (she lived with her brother). We called the Cops and we got there just before they arrive. Apparently, her brother was throwing all of her stuff out on the lawn. Oh, BTW, she was beat up pretty bad. So the police arrive, her brother, drunk as a skunk, boosted about his "Friends in high places" etc. So the cops did nothing. We got her stuff and my date drove her friend's car (the indian Sihk girl) and I drove her care (in which I was nervous because my date LOVES her car). So we drove back to her place (she was living with her parents and her mother wasn't happy with my date's new roommate and forced her out a week later, but anyways). So, my date drove me back to my truck and about 5am I arrived home. So tell me, does having a life something wonderful? Well, to be honest, it was a lot of fun to be out that late, but it would have been a major pain if I had to work the next morning...


I look at the brighter side. What else am I going to do with my time? Sleep?

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All moderations in purple.

You ain't nobody 'til you've been banned.

Agreed. Whatever floats your boat!

Being the big time rebel and hippie I am, I don't think there's anything wrong with someone spending all his or her time in an escapist fantasy if doing so isn't hurting anyone.

So long as they're not spunging off of someone else for food, clothing, and a place to live then whatever they do is fine. If they're stuck in their fantasy world and mooching off of their parents or someone else, they are hurting someone. Mooches are leaches.

We need to be very careful of generalizations here. The idea that everyone has to live "on their own" in their own apartment is a value judgment. In the 19th century, living in extended families was the norm, and many people today are going back to that simply for economic reasons. Here in NJ, housing is extremely expensive and often unaffordable even for people working full time. Many adults who have nothing to do with D&D and fantasy worlds are living with their parents for solely economic reasons. It is also environmentally more efficient to heat, light and air condition one home as opposed to two separate residences.

Whether a person's living situation is harming their parents, significant others, relatives, etc. is solely between that person and the other people involved. Outsiders don't know the private emotional, familial, and logistical agreements behind these arrangements. As long as all the people involved are okay with it (consenting adults), I don't see any problem. It's only if one party feels taken advantage of that a problem exists.

I don't want to get too personal here, but I have a serious debilitating gastrointestinal condition that prevents me from being able to work full time. I work part time and live with my parents and ran for public office (town council, a part time position) with my living situation being public knowledge. A few people used my living situation against me, but for the most part, that was considered below the belt mudslinging, and even people who didn't vote for me because they disagreed with my views said that was no one's business. I ended up with 42 percent of the vote and look forward to running again.

That is precisely my view too. It's a question of balance and priorities.

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I offer a complete and utter retraction. The imputation was totally without basis in fact, was in no way fair comment and was motivated purely by malice. I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you or your family, and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future.

I wouldn't. Then again, I have an aching back at the beginning of some days. But that, I think, is the point--what is a life to me is not necessarily a life to you. There are substantial chunks of my family I could quite happily never see again. At least some of them I may not.

Oh, and Laurele, I think the point was not where you live but how you live. If you're getting everything from your parents, that's not the same as living with them by choice. If you're paying your share, that's fair. If you're working full time, it's only right for you to contribute to family expenses--they did that in the 19th Century, too.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Whether a person's living situation is harming their parents, significant others, relatives, etc. is solely between that person and the other people involved. Outsiders don't know the private emotional, familial, and logistical agreements behind these arrangements. As long as all the people involved are okay with it (consenting adults), I don't see any problem. It's only if one party feels taken advantage of that a problem exists.

I don't want to get too personal here, but I have a serious debilitating gastrointestinal condition that prevents me from being able to work full time. I work part time and live with my parents and ran for public office (town council, a part time position) with my living situation being public knowledge. A few people used my living situation against me, but for the most part, that was considered below the belt mudslinging, and even people who didn't vote for me because they disagreed with my views said that was no one's business. I ended up with 42 percent of the vote and look forward to running again.

Circumstances differ. Some people have to live at home to take care of sick or elderly parents. Others may have mental or physical handicaps that prevent them from supporting themselves. Those aren't the people I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the losers (IMO) who refuse to grow up, go to work, and support themselves. They do hurt others because the money spend to support them has to come from somewhere. For example, their parents may be spending hundreds of dollars (or much more) each month on their "adult" children that they could be using to pay bills or save for their retirement.