I guess it depends on whether the hybrids are produced in addition to the non-hybrid cars or instead of them. I can't imagine it takes more energy to put a Prius on the back of a truck or railcar than a Corolla.

It probably does take more energy to produce a hybrid, and this is reflected in the sticker price - which was what started this thread in the first place.

I'm not an economist by any stretch, but it seems like it's nearly impossible to include every externality when making these kinds of comparison studies.

i was thinking more along the lines of keeping a 30 year old car on the road vs expending the energy to build a replacement for it. the $20k or more to buy a hybrid buys lot of fuel for an old car, and as you said, the price of the energy to build a new vehicle is reflected in the purchase price.
in the end, it comes down to economics and where you want to spend your money- by either keeping an already built car going, or building a new hybrid that gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling every time you drive it- even tho the car you traded in for it is still out there being driven by someone else and contributing to the "problem" of global warming or whatever.

__________________
"blacker than the blackest black... times infinity."- Nathan Explosion
The.. Best.. Thread..Ever...

Yes, at least for me. To a great extent, we bought our hybrids as much as a political/social statement, and maybe as a way to influence the market and other consumers to what we think is a good thing.

I suspect I will now be dragged over the coals by the folks around here about how wrong that I am, but heck, I'm the resident tree-hugger and I have to live up to people's expectations.

__________________
At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

Well, I agree that it's a good thing, but I never seriously considered a hybrid in my new vehicle purchase, mainly because of the initial cost and the fact that 90% of my driving is highway miles, where a hybrid doesn't help fuel economy as much.

Now, if a feasible all-electric vehicle was available at a decent cost, I would have jumped on that in a heartbeat.

I wound up with a 2008 Ford Focus SES Coupe. About $3-$4K less expensive than a regular Honda Civic (I always buy American anyway) and I average 36.7 mpg. The fuel savings alone (at $4/gallon) pays for 1/2 of the new car payment, compared to the cost of commuting in my old battleship F-150.

Hopefully, my new ride will carry me until a 100-mile range plug-in is available that will go highway speeds and not cost a fortune.

__________________
Scienara: A rejection of reason and evidence.

It takes about two thirds of a ton of coal to make a ton of steel. And almost half of steel used comes from recycled scrap. Plastic very roughly maybe 1.3 times its weight in oil. Glass I don't know. Maybe fifty bucks worth of fuel oil to ship it. So if buying a hybrid results in you using 1,000 liters less gasoline a year, maybe you've made up for the energy used in making the car in a year or so.

Yes, at least for me. To a great extent, we bought our hybrids as much as a political/social statement, and maybe as a way to influence the market and other consumers to what we think is a good thing.

Different people have different motivations. For me, a car provides a service. Economic and utility factors trump everything else. I choose not to wear my politics on my sleeve or try to influence others.

None of these messages will get through to people if this story is a representation of thier knowledge anyway.

Seeking better gas mileage? Think backwards
So; they use GPM to compute the amount of gas used instead of MPG because it's more usefull? Huh?
There might be some psychology there that will help with perception, but once you use it for calculation it doesn't make one bit of difference.

__________________
Numbers are not case sensitive. (me)

But I thought these payback periods were comparing buying a new hybrid versus buying a new non-hybrid. Certainly, it is much more cost-effective for me to keep my completely paid-for, 13 year old Subaru that still gets better gas mileage than most new cars rather than run out and buy a brand new hybrid.