Frankly, I think that reeks of paranoia.

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I offer a complete and utter retraction. The imputation was totally without basis in fact, was in no way fair comment and was motivated purely by malice. I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you or your family, and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future.

Anybody jump you guys since the Germans in the middle of last century?

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Gimme a minute to read through Jay's latest observations...

I don't follow you. Or, if I do follow you, I don't see the relevance.

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I offer a complete and utter retraction. The imputation was totally without basis in fact, was in no way fair comment and was motivated purely by malice. I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you or your family, and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future.

Oh I dunno, Jason may not be too far off. Read the "Good Grief" thread lately?

Nope, I haven't. Sure, there may be an extreme anti-American aspect to some earlier claims, but to label them all as such is pretty offensive. Some of the claims, like the New Zealand one mentioned before, are pretty decent - and not politically motivated at all. Certainly any claims for the Scottish guy I mentioned before (who almost certainly didn't beat the Wright brothers to it) are motivated more by pride in his achievements, rather than to get one over on "the Great Satan".

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I offer a complete and utter retraction. The imputation was totally without basis in fact, was in no way fair comment and was motivated purely by malice. I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you or your family, and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future.

Okay, maybe that was obtuse, sorry. And it was a one off comment. I'm not going to play poor picked on United States.

And you're tormenting me on purpose with your signiture aren't you? Or at least, everytime I read it I feel tormented.

Well, at least you're talking to me again. I blew up at poor Gillian over non-sense on my part (you might be familiar with that) and I believe I offended the dear woman. I regret that.

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Gimme a minute to read through Jay's latest observations...

Getting "everything all together", as the Wrights did, is no mean feat.

Apparently, Hiram Maxim* made a "flying machine". Thing was steam-powered, and huge! But the famous inventor was smart enough to know his own limitations. He knew darn well that he had no idea on how to control it. So he built it on a kind of railway track. Once it lifted off the ground a small distance, the track prevented it going any higher.

Having proved his point, Maxim left it to somebody else to work out the "control" bit.

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*) After helping "those darn fool Europeans kill each other faster", he had plenty of money to indulge his every whim. Some rich people turn to decadence, others make flying machines.

Probably George Cayley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Cayley
a Yorkshireman, and of course the first man to build a heavier-than-air flying machine*, (actually a glider) although he was not the first to fly- he asked his coachman to do that, who is said to have complained 'I was hired to drive a coach, not to fly!" This would have been in about 1855 or so.

*Apart from all the others.

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Orion's Arm . The Starlark . Voices: Future Tense- Novella Contest Issue! . OA Flickr set

If you're counting unpowered but still heavier-than-air flight, there's Otto Lilienthal. He made the earliest hang glider, controlling direction by moving his body during flight to bank and land. (1891)

Leonardo da Vinci of course was thinking about it and built a model a long time before, but there's no evidence that he (or a nervous volunteer,) flew it.

If you're counting balloons (and airships), they predate the Wright brothers - the Montgolfier brothers achieved the first recorded human balloon flight in December of 1783. Viva la France!

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"Insignificant molehill sometimes more important than conspicuous mountain." - Charlie Chan

I don't think so.

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As above, so below

I was just thinking that there might have been some unknown ocean dweller who got there before the insects did (just speculating).
On the other hand, today's flying fish rather glide than fly...

Thanks! I managed to misremember so much in one thread....

THe ironic thing about the Wright brothers being that no-one was interested at the time.

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Life is its own god.

Can you please ask the voices in your head to keep the noise down?

Well, so no one wants to say a word about that guy flying in 1901? His design is pretty convincing...

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If you're careful enough, nothing bad or good will ever happen to you.

I think the article sums it up quite nicely. Possible, but no evidence. Nobody flew a craft with the same engines, nobody has evidence he did, nobody knows just how controllable it really was. Could he make controlled turns with it, or just keep it straight?

So possible, but unproven.

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To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

One might reflect that of the precisely four groups of animals that we know to have developed true, powered flight, namely the insects, pterosaurs, birds, and bats, all became very widespread and successful very quickly (in geological terms). Also, all started from land. Doesn't prove anything, of course, but makes the possibility of a yet older and unknown volant group seem extra remote.

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Science is like sex. Sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.
-- Richard Feynman

Depends on the species Clint. I've spent a lot of time on the ocean.

Check out my post #232 in The Luckiest Unlucky Man I've Ever Seen On The Flightdeck.

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Gimme a minute to read through Jay's latest observations...

Assuming we're including gliders, I'd have to argue it was Ug, who jumped off a cliff into the river in 142,000 BC.

Like sheep, not much of a glide ratio...

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I am Mugs, of the Alien clan of Usa, Nordamerica, a Terran, of Sol. Human.

Whoever says "perception is reality" is daft. It's merely an abstraction, and often not a very good one.

Actually, Red Skelton dramatically portrayed Ug in the opening scenes from Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines

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"Insignificant molehill sometimes more important than conspicuous mountain." - Charlie Chan

Originally Posted by ginnie View Post
After all, we invented . . . insulin. . .
Huh? I always thought Frederick Banting and Charles Best at the University of Toronto invented (or discovered) insulin.
Should I curse my grade six history textbook?
Even wikipedia credits him...
They then isolated an extract from these islets, producing what they called isletin (what we now know as insulin)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin...aracterization

J.J.R. Macleod and Frederick Banting at the University of Toronto discovered insulin, which is a hormone produced in the islets of Langerhans in the pancreas. Insulin regulates the carbohydrate metabolism as well as the liver's ability to release fat. It is used to treat some forms of diabetes mellitus.
http://www.blurtit.com/q942014.html

A Great Canadian Breakthrough:
The Discovery of Insulin

Sir Frederick Banting and Dr. Charles Best are perhaps the most well-known Canadian medical figures. Their names are synonymous with the discovery of insulin at the University of Toronto in 1921-22. Insulin is a life-saving treatment for people suffering from diabetes, and it is hailed as