Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > General Interest > Off-Topic Babbling
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

   

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 03:08 PM
NEOWatcher's Avatar
NEOWatcher NEOWatcher is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: the E(e)rie coast
Posts: 9,968
Default Using [sic]

Since it looks like my question here might be taking the discussion away from that thread, I thought I'd try to head off a derail at the pass.
Plus; I can see a lot of people chiming in on this subject.

Basically; It started with [sic] being used on UK spelling. I am curious if there were any tried and true guidelines to [sic] usage.
__________________
Numbers are not case sensitive. (me)
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 03:09 PM
SeanF's Avatar
SeanF SeanF is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Posts: 6,031
Default

For one thing, the purpose of [sic] is to let the reader know that it wasn't your mistake but was in the original text.

When you're quoting on an internet bulletin board, it's generally presumed you're cutting and pasting, anyway. I don't think I'd be tempted to use [sic] at all around here...
__________________
SeanF

"Ask to understand, but don't challenge unless you have the knowledge."--NEOWatcher

The contents of this post are ©2009 by SeanF and may not be copied or retransmitted in any form without the express written consent of SeanF
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 03:12 PM
NEOWatcher's Avatar
NEOWatcher NEOWatcher is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: the E(e)rie coast
Posts: 9,968
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanF View Post
...When you're quoting on an internet bulletin board, it's generally presumed you're cutting and pasting, anyway. I don't think I'd be tempted to use [sic] at all around here...
My thoughts too, but my unsuredness kept me from attempting to go that far.
__________________
Numbers are not case sensitive. (me)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 03:13 PM
grant hutchison grant hutchison is online now
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,621
Default

It just means "thus", and it's deployed to draw attention to any usages or spellings in quoted text which the person doing the quoting finds unusual: it can be a non-standard turn of phrase, a mistake in spelling or grammar, or anything else that the quoter wants to flag as a genuine part of the original text, and not something arising from misquotation.
I suppose one could use it when quoting a body of text with different spelling conventions from one's own text, but it's not customary, since reader and writer are expected to understand what's going on; likewise with archaic spelling. In fact, by adding "[sic]" in such circumstances, you run the risk of suggesting to readers that you just don't understand that what you've marked is acceptable and standard spelling.

Grant Hutchison
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 03:28 PM
sabianq's Avatar
sabianq sabianq is offline
Established Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 786
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
It just means "thus", and it's deployed to draw attention to any usages or spellings in quoted text which the person doing the quoting finds unusual: it can be a non-standard turn of phrase, a mistake in spelling or grammar, or anything else that the quoter wants to flag as a genuine part of the original text, and not something arising from misquotation.

Grant Hutchison

so am i reading this right grant, that there would be no issues with the usage of [sic] if the person who is quoting a poster finds an unusual spelling (proper English or otherwise), wrong spelling, or to highlight an error like if the poster used the word "tokillya" in place of "tequila".

I would guess that that the usage is nothing more than an indication that the quoted material has been reproduced verbatim from the quoted source and is not an error in transcription.

is this sort of right?
__________________

-work in progress--
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 03:50 PM
Argos's Avatar
Argos Argos is online now
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: 22°20'42"S / 49°03'14"W
Posts: 7,879
Default

Sic is another form [probably an abbreviation] of 'sicut' [e.g. sicut erat in principio- 'as it was in the beginning'].
__________________
What brings us together is stronger than what pulls us apart
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 04:43 PM
grant hutchison grant hutchison is online now
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,621
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabianq View Post
I would guess that that the usage is nothing more than an indication that the quoted material has been reproduced verbatim from the quoted source and is not an error in transcription.

is this sort of right?
That's right. It's a way of saying to the reader: "I'm aware you may be puzzled by this, but I've checked it, and that's how it is in the original". As others have pointed it out, it's a little superfluous if you're using an electronic quote function that links back to the original.

Some folk use it as a weapon, to highlight the errors of others or to show off their own erudition. It's a two-edged sword, however. I've just read a piece of journalism that quoted (from a politician's memoires), "his just deserts [sic]". Oops. The journalist is mistaken if she thinks that's mistaken or unusual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argos View Post
Sic is another form [probably an abbreviation] of 'sicut' [e.g. sicut erat in principio- 'as it was in the beginning'].
Just plain sic is good, unabbreviated Latin for "thus" (as in sic transit gloria mundi, for instance).

Grant Hutchison
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 04:50 PM
SeanF's Avatar
SeanF SeanF is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Posts: 6,031
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
(as in sic transit gloria mundi, for instance).
I didn't know Gloria was sick...
__________________
SeanF

"Ask to understand, but don't challenge unless you have the knowledge."--NEOWatcher

The contents of this post are ©2009 by SeanF and may not be copied or retransmitted in any form without the express written consent of SeanF
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 05:00 PM
ToSeek's Avatar
ToSeek ToSeek is online now
Vulcan Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Greenbelt, MD
Posts: 26,038
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanF View Post
I didn't know Gloria was sick...
She threw up on the bus.
__________________
Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 05:05 PM
SeanF's Avatar
SeanF SeanF is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Posts: 6,031
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToSeek View Post
She threw up on the bus.
I hope she felt better Tuesdi.
__________________
SeanF

"Ask to understand, but don't challenge unless you have the knowledge."--NEOWatcher

The contents of this post are ©2009 by SeanF and may not be copied or retransmitted in any form without the express written consent of SeanF
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 05:05 PM
Argos's Avatar
Argos Argos is online now
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: 22°20'42"S / 49°03'14"W
Posts: 7,879
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanF View Post
I didn't know Gloria was sick...
Or that she was traveling around the world.
__________________
What brings us together is stronger than what pulls us apart
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 05:09 PM
grant hutchison grant hutchison is online now
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,621
Default



Grant Hutchison
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 05:14 PM
Argos's Avatar
Argos Argos is online now
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: 22°20'42"S / 49°03'14"W
Posts: 7,879
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
Just plain sic is good, unabbreviated Latin for "thus" (as in sic transit gloria mundi, for instance).
We3 could agree that´s an abbreviation and be done with that.
__________________
What brings us together is stronger than what pulls us apart
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 05:20 PM
grant hutchison grant hutchison is online now
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,621
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argos View Post
We3 could agree that´s an abbreviation and be done with that.
Not sure what you mean.

Grant Hutchison
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 05:35 PM
mahesh's Avatar
mahesh mahesh is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: lat 51.52n long 0.05w
Posts: 8,356
Send a message via Yahoo to mahesh
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
...Just plain sic is good, unabbreviated Latin for "thus" (as in sic transit gloria mundi, for instance).
Grant Hutchison
i remember well...i was sic in transit one glorias monday, on my first ever flight, as a child. oh that brown bag! i thought i was rather proud of that feat!
__________________
clear skies

If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. CARL SAGAN

Mak: Pass the pepperoni please.
Fazor: "Hail, Bautainia! We pledge our hearts to thee! Science and woo, some babbling too, and astron-oh-meee!"
slang: And it made ash out of yew and tree.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 05:38 PM
mahesh's Avatar
mahesh mahesh is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: lat 51.52n long 0.05w
Posts: 8,356
Send a message via Yahoo to mahesh
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToSeek View Post
She threw up on the bus.
I hope she felt better Tuesdi.
sure. she married Soloman Grundi, by wednesdi, gloria did.
(on the bus, too!...just like Ben and Elaine in The Graduate)
__________________
clear skies

If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. CARL SAGAN

Mak: Pass the pepperoni please.
Fazor: "Hail, Bautainia! We pledge our hearts to thee! Science and woo, some babbling too, and astron-oh-meee!"
slang: And it made ash out of yew and tree.

Last edited by mahesh; 10-November-2008 at 05:56 PM.. Reason: spellings/links
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 06:01 PM
NEOWatcher's Avatar
NEOWatcher NEOWatcher is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: the E(e)rie coast
Posts: 9,968
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahesh View Post
(on the bus, too!...just like Ben and Elaine in The Graduate)
Hey; something I can gloat about... I drove that actual bus. Our university bought it from the studio decades ago.
__________________
Numbers are not case sensitive. (me)
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 06:44 PM
tdvance's Avatar
tdvance tdvance is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bowie, MD
Posts: 3,651
Default

It is easy to be under the impression that "sic" means "error", but it only means, "I didn't make an error copying this part--now the printer who gets this after me is a different story...."

An example usage that is not pointing to an error but is still useful:

On Avalon, they fished for samlon [sic].
__________________
-----
Todd (Bowie, MD, US, North America, Earth, Sol System, Vega region, Local Bubble, Orion arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Virgo A Cluster, Virgo supercluster, the universe in which spock is clean shaven)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

personal page: http://blog.astrosketches.info
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 07:19 PM
mahesh's Avatar
mahesh mahesh is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: lat 51.52n long 0.05w
Posts: 8,356
Send a message via Yahoo to mahesh
Default

b....limey td, saucy, eh?
It was Samlon [sic] Gurndi, afterall?!....
__________________
clear skies

If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. CARL SAGAN

Mak: Pass the pepperoni please.
Fazor: "Hail, Bautainia! We pledge our hearts to thee! Science and woo, some babbling too, and astron-oh-meee!"
slang: And it made ash out of yew and tree.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 08:21 PM
MAPNUT MAPNUT is online now
Established Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New York City
Posts: 420
Default

Isn't the original question just whether it's appropriate to use "sic" to point out UK spelling? I'd say it's not a good idea; just makes it sound like you've never heard of that spelling.
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 08:23 PM
KaiYeves's Avatar
KaiYeves KaiYeves is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Currently on assignment on planet shown in avatar photo
Posts: 10,033
Default

I, for one, routinely fix errors made by people I'm quoting on BAUT, especially to star out swear words.
__________________
I want to go back to the moon.
I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.

"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 08:27 PM
NEOWatcher's Avatar
NEOWatcher NEOWatcher is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: the E(e)rie coast
Posts: 9,968
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAPNUT View Post
Isn't the original question just whether it's appropriate to use "sic" to point out UK spelling?
Not really. It was only a starting point...
It's been an interesting discussion. Carry on.
__________________
Numbers are not case sensitive. (me)
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 09:09 PM
mahesh's Avatar
mahesh mahesh is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: lat 51.52n long 0.05w
Posts: 8,356
Send a message via Yahoo to mahesh
Default

MAPNUT, I would imagine that your reference to the word sic's usage is exclusive to UK or English english, may be mistaken.
Its usage predates its use in the english language.

old as the hills.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sic
__________________
clear skies

If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. CARL SAGAN

Mak: Pass the pepperoni please.
Fazor: "Hail, Bautainia! We pledge our hearts to thee! Science and woo, some babbling too, and astron-oh-meee!"
slang: And it made ash out of yew and tree.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 09:19 PM
grant hutchison grant hutchison is online now
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,621
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahesh View Post
MAPNUT, I would imagine that your reference to the word sic's usage is exclusive to UK or English english, may be mistaken.
Its usage predates its use in the english language.
Mahesh, I think you've misread MAPNUT's post. MAPNUT was pointing out that when an American writer marks British English spellings with "[sic]", readers are likely to assume that the writer is ignorant of standard British spelling.
The same thing is liable to happen if a British writer marks up US English spellings.

Grant Hutchison
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 10:05 PM
mahesh's Avatar
mahesh mahesh is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: lat 51.52n long 0.05w
Posts: 8,356
Send a message via Yahoo to mahesh
Default

Rereading slowly, MAP..'s post, you are right Grant. Sorry MAPs...
Ok, but there again, it shouldn't be UK...could be referring to any unusually spelt english word/s from any source. Should it?
__________________
clear skies

If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. CARL SAGAN

Mak: Pass the pepperoni please.
Fazor: "Hail, Bautainia! We pledge our hearts to thee! Science and woo, some babbling too, and astron-oh-meee!"
slang: And it made ash out of yew and tree.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 10:12 PM
grant hutchison grant hutchison is online now
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,621
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahesh View Post
Ok, but there again, it shouldn't be UK...could be referring to any unusually spelt english word/s from any source. Should it?
British English spellings being flagged with "[sic]" was the specific scenario mentioned in the OP. The point being that British English spelling isn't unusual! It's a standard that is pretty well-known to most Americans. So for an American writer to flag it with a "[sic]" can suggest to readers that the author is simply ignorant of common British usage. MAPNUT was pointing out that danger.

It's a general rule, really. Before you deploy "[sic]", you need to be sure that there is indeed something unusual there, worthy of comment. Otherwise you can end up just looking dumb, like my journalist with her "just deserts [sic]".

Grant Hutchison
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 10:29 PM
mahesh's Avatar
mahesh mahesh is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: lat 51.52n long 0.05w
Posts: 8,356
Send a message via Yahoo to mahesh
Default

I get it. I am not much exposed to regular, everyday, heavy American reportage, to appreciate/get alarmed about frequent use of sic. Pardon me.

yes, i appreciate.... "just deserts [sic]"., that is funny.
But it happens in the UK too. Careless Miss Spellings. Deserving of a bucket of flours
__________________
clear skies

If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. CARL SAGAN

Mak: Pass the pepperoni please.
Fazor: "Hail, Bautainia! We pledge our hearts to thee! Science and woo, some babbling too, and astron-oh-meee!"
slang: And it made ash out of yew and tree.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 11:02 PM
slang's Avatar
slang slang is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 4,135
Default

I have been tempted to quote texts where authors inserted a [sic] in an ignorant way thus:

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous totally forgotten dude
quoted text quoted text quoted text something true [sic][SIC!!!!] quoted text quoted text
It's especially funny when you can infer from the context that the author thought it was a way to indicate that a certain remark or thought was sick, as in disgusting, or when some similar misunderstanding is evident. Just so it was obvious that it was not I that inserted the first [sic]...
__________________
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" -- Charles Darwin
"Your right to hold an opinion is not being contested. Your expectation that it be taken seriously is." -- Jason Thompson
Meet the OOONG TOE.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 11-November-2008, 01:01 AM
mike alexander's Avatar
mike alexander mike alexander is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: McMinnville, Oregon
Posts: 10,063
Default

British spelling is easy: add a 'u' here, reverse an 'er' there...

Nowadays, sic seems to mean 'yeah', or 'sure'.
__________________
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers.
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 11-November-2008, 01:46 AM
kleindoofy's Avatar
kleindoofy kleindoofy is offline
Established Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Boston + Germany
Posts: 1,346
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToSeek
She threw up on the bus.
Let me guess: on an omnibus.

sic and sicut are different. Sic means "thus" or "so!" while sicut means "as" in a comparison.

erat in principio sic: "that's what it was like in the beginning" (poor Latin)

sicut erat in principio et nunc et semper et in saecula saeculorum: "as it was in the beginning, is now and ever will be, in all eternity"

As stated above, [sic] can be used in citing sources containing typos, which one wants to quote verbatim, pointing out that the error is in the original. Also as stated above, it can be used in quotes which use an unusual form of a word, which might otherwise be seen as a mistake or you yourself are using an unaccustomed word/spelling/phrase and want to express "leave it that way, that's what I want. It should be used with restraint. Usually putting a single phrase in quotations (e.g.: he said it was "fablilously") or using a footnote will do.

As for using [sic] on the internet, a braindead admin I know (from another forum) uses phrases like "it's bigger and more greater." A [sic] after "more greater" would fit there very well.
__________________
Ach, mein Sinn, wo willst du endlich hin, wo soll ich mich erquicken? Bleib' ich hier, oder wünsch' ich mir Berg und Hügel auf den Rücken?
Bei der Welt ist gar kein Rat, und im Herzen steh'n die Schmerzen meiner Missetat, weil der Knecht den Herrn verleugnet hat.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Faster than the speed of light? lsenl Space/Astronomy Questions and Answers 124 29-July-2008 05:56 AM
A quantum theory of gravity Uclock Against the Mainstream 386 05-March-2007 11:19 AM
Anyone heard from Charles Pegelow recently? Architect Conspiracy Theories 190 04-December-2006 12:44 AM
stupid america crumb44 Small Media at Large 120 25-June-2003 06:20 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.0.0
©  2006 Bad Astronomy and Universe Today