Courtesy of Nature, http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...l/456702a.html is sure to stir up some controversy.

It is a long article. Here are some highlights:

"In this article, we propose actions that will help society accept the benefits of enhancement, given appropriate research and evolved regulation. Prescription drugs are regulated as such not for their enhancing properties but primarily for considerations of safety and potential abuse. Still, cognitive enhancement has much to offer individuals and society, and a proper societal response will involve making enhancements available while managing their risks."

"Society must respond to the growing demand for cognitive enhancement. That response must start by rejecting the idea that 'enhancement' is a dirty word, argue Henry Greely and colleagues."

"In this article, we propose actions that will help society accept the benefits of enhancement, given appropriate research and evolved regulation. Prescription drugs are regulated as such not for their enhancing properties but primarily for considerations of safety and potential abuse. Still, cognitive enhancement has much to offer individuals and society, and a proper societal response will involve making enhancements available while managing their risks."

"Based on our considerations, we call for a presumption that mentally competent adults should be able to engage in cognitive enhancement using drugs."

"We call for an evidence-based approach to the evaluation of the risks and benefits of cognitive enhancement."

"We call for enforceable policies concerning the use of cognitive-enhancing drugs to support fairness, protect individuals from coercion and minimize enhancement-related socioeconomic disparities."

"We call for a programme of research into the use and impacts of cognitive-enhancing drugs by healthy individuals."

"We call for physicians, educators, regulators and others to collaborate in developing policies that address the use of cognitive-enhancing drugs by healthy individuals."

"We call for information to be broadly disseminated concerning the risks, benefits and alternatives to pharmaceutical cognitive enhancement."

"Conclusion

Like all new technologies, cognitive enhancement can be used well or poorly. We should welcome new methods of improving our brain function. In a world in which human workspans and lifespans are increasing, cognitive enhancement tools — including the pharmacological — will be increasingly useful for improved quality of life and extended work productivity, as well as to stave off normal and pathological age-related cognitive declines23. Safe and effective cognitive enhancers will benefit both the individual and society.

But it would also be foolish to ignore problems that such use of drugs could create or exacerbate. With this, as with other technologies, we need to think and work hard to maximize its benefits and minimize its harms."

I pretty much completely agree with that they are calling for. A reasoned, rational, evidence based approach to using chemicals to enhance our cognitive abilities. Be they natural, such as Psilocybin or Cannabis, or pharmaceuticals such as something like Adderall or Ritalin.

I think it is high time we started letting consenting adults explore their own minds as they see fit, so long as they aren't hurting anybody else.

Edit: They even talk about prosthetic brain chips They really are serious about studying all options!

__________________
"In the end the aggressors always destroy themselves, making way for others who know how to cooperate and get along. Life is much less a competitive struggle for survival than a triumph of cooperation and creativity."- Fritjof Capra

www.gonzoscience.com

Heh, 'not hurting anyone else'.
Four words, such a quagmire. Let's get hypothetical and say that there is someone who takes such drugs regularly, and can complete, under the drugs, 80 tasks a minute. However, off the drugs, they can complete 60. There is another person who can complete 70 tasks a minute off the drugs, but for whatever reason, doesn't take the drugs. Allergic reaction, ethical beliefs, religious doctrine, whatever. Who do you hire? If you hire the first person, you have someone who is better, but only if they take a pill. If you they run out, stop taking them, can't pay for them, their efficiency goes down. On the other hand, if you hire the second person, your getting a less efficient employee. If that person doesn' have a physical reason why they can't take them, should they be forced to, just to compete? If they can't, does that make them a lower class citizen? And if some law forces you to hire a certain number of the those who can or don't, tis that fair for your customers? You are no longer able to provide the best product possible, because you have to hire a group who are actually inferior to another group you could potentially hire. Like I said, quagmire.

'Not hurting anyone else' is lie, everyone affects someone else. When you take seat at a diner, another person can't sit their anymore. If you buy a loaf of bread, that bread can no longer feed another person. The very air you breath is no longer thier for someone else to breath. And it spreads, rippling outward. Now, recreational drugs, I still have some qualms about, but I can at least concede that those are meant to be consumed in ones own home or in a controlled enviroment.
However, an enhancement drug is meant by its very nature to be used within a working enviroment. If a student takes a enhancement drug, does better because it enhanced his memory and recall, gets the scholarship, then another student, who studied just as hard, but didn't take the drug. Was the first student cheating, or was the second student just not using all the resources available?

I believe the question of enhancement drugs must be looked at very carefully, before we can come to a definitive answer. This dialog, this discourse, is part of that.

__________________

Did you even read the whole article? They pretty much covered what you just wrote, but in a more summarized format. That is why they are calling on a broad public debate, scientific research into safety, effectiveness, consequences/benefits, and a moral investigation of fairness and implications for society at large.

Edit to add: Drugs of all spectrums are here to stay. We may as well look for ways to use them in a socially responsible manner as opposed to keeping them in a black market framework.

Also, they seem to make the case that we already have unfair advantages, such as: access to computers/internet, socio-economic status, access to health and nutrition, access to tutors, access to better schools. Don't try and tell me that things are somehow fair as is. Life is unfair. Evolution is unfair. That is nature.

__________________
"In the end the aggressors always destroy themselves, making way for others who know how to cooperate and get along. Life is much less a competitive struggle for survival than a triumph of cooperation and creativity."- Fritjof Capra

www.gonzoscience.com

I admit I was responding more to what you said, more then the articles. The article is fascinating, but your viewpoint, since I can actually communicate with you, weighs more heavily in my decision on how to respond.

__________________

Well, I really don't hold a solid viewpoint. I agree with their approach handsdown, but it most certainly raises a lot of questions in my own mind. Such as:

Who will benefit most from this? Humanity, or only some of humanity?

Who will be in control of this? The government? Scientists? Parents? Philosphers? All of the above I would hope.

What constitutes a "good" mind enhancing drug? One that gives a short term gain, such as Adderall? Or one that has profound, insightful, lasting effects on ones life such as Psilocybin? Depends on the situation. I have used both chemicals, and for different reasons. They both worked for what I used them for.

What is the potential for abusing this new system of mind enhancement? Will we all become a bunch of strung out pill poppers? Or will we be able to to mature as a society and be responsible with them?

If 5% of people end up abusing this new system, but society at large gains from advances in science, philosophy, art, a deeper understanding of ourselves and the universe at large, is it worth it? All benefits come with a risk, just as modern pharmaceutical medicine comes with risks. It helps most, but hurts some. That just means we have to find new ways to help those that are being hurt.

I hope this clarifies how I feel. I don't think we should just legalize every drug for any use. That would be disastrous. Which is why I agree that this subject needs to be broadly discussed, debated, and analyzed. For like I said: Drugs of all types, and for all purposes, are here to stay. If we can find ways to utilize them to our advantage, we should, so long as we take a reasoned, careful approach.

Edit: Obviously I could come up with a much linger list of questions, those are just a few that popped into mind. As for the idea of mind enhancing computer chips, which is a reality a lot closer than we think, this same debate will come up. I think for the time being, we need to analyze which drugs are safe, which drugs are overall beneficial to the individual and society, and the best ways to employ a system as to where we can all share in the benefits these enhancements will bring to society.

Remember, this isn't just about legalizing any specific drugs, it is about mind-enhancement. It just so happens that certain chemicals can aid us on this quest to higher levels of consciousness and intelligence. I also think that we should start with a base approach of good education systems, stress-free living, healthy lifestyles, and a general society-wide encouragement of learning. We could start by making our education system a little more exiting as to actually inspire people to learn, not kill creativity and inquisitiveness.

__________________
"In the end the aggressors always destroy themselves, making way for others who know how to cooperate and get along. Life is much less a competitive struggle for survival than a triumph of cooperation and creativity."- Fritjof Capra

www.gonzoscience.com

What do you count as enhancing cognitive abilities? How do these drugs apply, in your view?

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Are you really you under the influence?

Who decides who gets what?

The movie THX1138 may have been more prophetic than I originally thought.

__________________
(By the way, I hate it that so many papers in the areas of planetary science and geology are not easily available to the dreaded "non-subscribers". It is like they are screaming at me: "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH". Good, I feel better now.)

"Quaerendo inventis"

My two cents.

1. I agree with your fluid views, apart from those on egalitarianism and control.

2. I like the idea of human enhancement to make us better adapted to travelling and living in Space.

3. I would prefer permanent genetic advancement to temporary pills.

4. Finally, stay off the magic mushrooms!

__________________

For now, I'll stick with my favorite mind-enhancing drug: coffee

__________________
-----
Todd (Bowie, MD, US, North America, Earth, Sol System, Vega region, Local Bubble, Orion arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Virgo A Cluster, Virgo supercluster, the universe in which spock is clean shaven)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

personal page: http://blog.astrosketches.info

Maybe that's my problem; enhance cognivity (if that's not a word, it should be) with coffee; but then go home and dehance (again, should be) it with alcohol. Hmm...

Welp, I don't see a solution to my problem; guess I'll just take my cognative skills as they are.

__________________

I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
"In order to increase awareness of the homeless, security have been given binoculars."

Aren't Psilocybin and Cannabis illegal? Haven't they been found to cause mental illness in some people? Are you suggesting that readers of the Baut forum use illegal and dangerous drugs?

I think he's advocating for making the illegal legal.

__________________
-----
Todd (Bowie, MD, US, North America, Earth, Sol System, Vega region, Local Bubble, Orion arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Virgo A Cluster, Virgo supercluster, the universe in which spock is clean shaven)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

personal page: http://blog.astrosketches.info

I would count cognitive enhancing abilities as: Any method or technique used to enhance/increase ones thinking, understanding, creativity, inquisitiveness or attention that leads to greater knowledge and success for the individual and/or society. (You have no idea how many times I re-wrote this sentence!)

Something could be said for all methods, including chemicals. Simply reducing stress can lead an overall gain in ones cognitive functioning. Going for a walk, practicing yoga/meditation, kicking back and drinking a beer/smoking some herb, getting enough and good enough sleep, etc. If you reduce your overall stress levels, you will be able to think and perform better than you would if you are riddled with anxiety or depression.

Using a chemical for such means, be it alcohol, plants, pills, or whatever your drug of choice is, should therefore be equally acceptable.

I will simplify into three categories: Simulants (coffee, Adderall or equivalent, coca derivatives). Relaxants (Alcohol, cannabis, opiates (natural and synthetic)). Psychedelics (psilocybin, LSD, etc.)

Coffee is a mild stimulant, Adderall is a medium/strong stimulant, and lets say that in the future some form of coca extract is brought to market and regulated. Also, lets say that some compound could be created that actually increases the brains ability to learn, not just get "high" for a short while. Stimulants increase focus, attention, alertness, and pace of thinking.

Stimulants would apply beneficially in many cases. Surgeons performing long, arduous operations. Pilots making long flights. Drivers making long, cross-country road trips. People working in factories/dangerous jobs. Preparations for exams/overall learning ability.

Were people allowed to responsibly use a stimulant in any of these situations would be beneficial to the individual and society at large. Less surgical errors /medical mistakes. Less pilot error. Less auto accidents. Less workplace accidents. Better performance by better learning for students. All of these are beneficial to the individual and society. Though, let me make clear, that I think as a society we should set goals of becoming more healthy through better eating habits and exercise, dedicated time to stress relief, and adequate, quality sleep as a base level for achieving success, not just popping a pill for all of our ailments (that is precisely where we are now: pharmaceuticals for everything while ignoring the base causes of most disease/health problems).

Relaxants, I briefly discussed above. Negative stress is probably the biggest underlying cause of most ailments. Its no secret that happier people are healthier people, and healthier people are more productive and usually smarter people. More productive and smarter people are beneficial to to themselves and society.

The psychedelics are where my passion lies. I am absolutely certain that, used properly, psychedelics can and will have profound positive effects on individuals and society as a whole.

For starters, psychedelics are non-addictive and non-toxic. The only danger in them is the fated "bad trip" which people do have and can lead to neuroses. This is easily avoided, though. Let me explain "used properly". Anyone that has ever experimented with them knows they are powerful mind altering compounds. "Set" and "setting" are absolutely crucial for avoiding "bad trips". If one is knowledgeable about the compound, in a comfortable, safe environment, and are around someone you trust that has experienced said compound before, avoiding the bad trip is almost certain. This is the "setting". Personally, I like them most out in nature, and at night under the stars.

The "set" is your mindset. You could be in a happy go lucky mood, happy with life and have a profoundly beneficial experience on them. Your next time you could be sad, depressed, or angry, and you will most likely have a distressful, negative experience.

So what are their benefits? I am going to speak from personal experience, shared experience of others, and how I think they can help society at large.

Let me start by saying that it is very hard to describe the experience to someone who has never themselves tried them. It is akin to describing a profound, lucid dream to someone who has never had one, or like describing Tokyo to someone who has never seen a car or skyscraper. You may recognize the words, but you can't grasp the overall meaning.

So here are some things that I almost directly give credit to the insights gained while on psychedelics: First and foremost, what is the nature of reality and consciousness? What makes me me, and why am I here? How many people do you know that stop and think: Here I am, an energetic compilation of matter and chemicals, aware of my own existence and sense of self, standing on a huge sphere of rock with a thin skin of air that gives life to everything we know, beneath the stars of a (most likely) infinite universe, traversing time and space itself. Cool!

As for other benefits I have gained: a deep sense of connection to nature and all life around me. I directly credit my environmental zeal to insights while on psilocybin. I have since altered my daily habits towards a minimal waste lifestyle and a vegetarian diet for example.
A deeper sense of connection and empathy to fellow human beings.
Changing from a pessimistic 'theres nothing I can do about anything' attitude to an 'I can do anything attitude' towards life and the problems our world faces as a whole. They instilled in me a sense of purpose and drive to right the wrongs this world has endured under humans onslaught for the last 200 years.
A more forgiving attitude. Example: Me and my father fought almost my entire life. He was pretty much a jerk. For a while I wanted nothing to do with him. Then I came to realize that he was most likely mistreated as child himself. Surprise surprise I found out from my mom that he was indeed. So instead of continuing my hatred towards him, I forgave him so we could both move on. We now enjoy a fantastic relationship.

Psychedelics and science: There is no doubt in me that their use has aided me and others I know of in understanding and grasping difficult concepts, such as quantum uncertainty, entanglement and the sheer size of the universe. Its not like they make you able to do the mathematics of it all, but you have almost an intuitive understanding of the concepts, thereby driving me and others I know to vigorously learn and understand through empirical means. Fritjof Capras book the "Tao of Physics" is a perfect example of a scientist having revelations about physics and the universe in general under the influence of psychedelics. And Francis Crick, which was revealed after his death, that he had the epiphany of the double-helix structure of DNA while under the influence of LSD, to which he called a "thinking tool".

Psychedelics and art/music: Pull your heads out of the sand and realize that the best musicians and artists this world has seen used psychedelics to expand their minds. The world is absolutely a better place because of art and music. Psychedelic use opened the doors for art and music in myself as well. 6 years ago, I was a bland, boring, uncreative schmuck who never though he would amount to anything, most certainly never be an artist, musician, or amateur scientist. I now find myself staring in awe wondering where this ability came from to create the paintings I do (which I will eventually post up here), not to mention the fact that I now play guitar, flute, and hand percussion instruments. I never, ever thought I would do any of this. Did the plants "cause" me to be good at them? Absolutely not. They made me realize that I could do anything I wanted if I put my mind to it.

Here is a recent study by Johns Hopkins University. In short, they basically gave psilocybin to about 30 volunteers who had never taken it before. Most of them had positive experiences, while some felt fear and paranoia. Probably because psychedelics shatter your world view, or plunge you farther down the rabbit hole than you ever though possible. Here is an important quip relative to this discussion:

In the study, more than 60 percent of subjects described the effects of psilocybin in ways that met criteria for a “full mystical experience” as measured by established psychological scales. One third said the experience was the single most spiritually significant of their lifetimes; and more than two-thirds rated it among their five most meaningful and spiritually significant. Griffiths says subjects liken it to the importance of the birth of their first child or the death of a parent.

Two months later, 79 percent of subjects reported moderately or greatly increased well-being or life satisfaction compared with those given a placebo at the same test session. A majority said their mood, attitudes and behaviors had changed for the better. Structured interviews with family members, friends and co-workers generally confirmed the subjects’ remarks.

So, in conclusion, I think psychedelics, USED PROPERLY AND RESPONSIBLY, could have far reaching, profound impacts upon our society and species for the greater good of us all.

__________________
"In the end the aggressors always destroy themselves, making way for others who know how to cooperate and get along. Life is much less a competitive struggle for survival than a triumph of cooperation and creativity."- Fritjof Capra

www.gonzoscience.com

Ok, I'll allow that, but these drugs have already been judged to be dangerous to the mental health of many of those who take them, and that's why they are illegal.

All you are using this thread for is to promote the use and legalization of dangerous illegal drugs.

Yes they are currently illegal. Yes, they can cause mental problems in a small minority of users. No, I am not suggesting BAUT members use illegal substances.

I am saying that (edit) some current illegal drugs should NOT be illegal. I think we need to open up research into said drugs so their benefits can be proven scientifically and experientially once and for all. The neuroses inflicted upon a terribly small minority pales in comparisons to the destructive affects of currently legal drugs. And I am merely giving my perspective on experiences I have had. I have stated many times that caution, knowledge, and sensibility are the best approach to using ANY drug.

__________________
"In the end the aggressors always destroy themselves, making way for others who know how to cooperate and get along. Life is much less a competitive struggle for survival than a triumph of cooperation and creativity."- Fritjof Capra

www.gonzoscience.com

I am using this thread to promote a widespread, modern scientific inquiry into the potential overlooked benefits of currently illegal AND legal drugs. Legalization of certain drugs would most certainly be an outcome of said inquiry.

Move it OTB is you think this section is improper. Which "dangerous" illegal drugs do you speak of, and how dangerous are they relative to currently legal substances?

__________________
"In the end the aggressors always destroy themselves, making way for others who know how to cooperate and get along. Life is much less a competitive struggle for survival than a triumph of cooperation and creativity."- Fritjof Capra

www.gonzoscience.com

Are you a medical doctor? Show us your peer-reviewed and published research papers.

Come out where I live and I'll show you a bunch of drug addicts and mentally ill people who have taken too many illegal drugs.

These tests have already been conducted. That's why the drugs are illegal.

"Creativity in thinking" can be very good, or very bad. If you're talking about increasing cognative ability, I'd word it as "Increase the ability to make correct connections and sound rationalization."

Some of the people here have seen some of my particularly "creative" connections between otherwise unrelated ideas/topics/etc ... however, that doesn't make any of those connections more corrector better. I could say "I think more creatively after a half-dozen jack-and-cokes"; which is particularly true ... but that doesn't mean my decision making has become better--in fact, it's quite the opposite.

__________________

I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
"In order to increase awareness of the homeless, security have been given binoculars."

Agreed. I meant creative in a sense of out of the box thinking that this world is going to need to solve the problems we face. Of course not all of them are going to be good ideas, but that is the essence of brainstorming. You play with ideas, and the sound ones prevail.

__________________
"In the end the aggressors always destroy themselves, making way for others who know how to cooperate and get along. Life is much less a competitive struggle for survival than a triumph of cooperation and creativity."- Fritjof Capra

www.gonzoscience.com

Hardly. Psilocybin and cannabis research has been minimal to none for almost 40 years now. The Johns Hopkins study was one of the first since the 1960's. Cannabis research is taking off nicely.

__________________
"In the end the aggressors always destroy themselves, making way for others who know how to cooperate and get along. Life is much less a competitive struggle for survival than a triumph of cooperation and creativity."- Fritjof Capra

www.gonzoscience.com

What would increase "cognative ability" (which, in this situation I'm taking as critical thinking skills) is fairly ambiguous*. I'm picturing something that helps people be more rational (though that in and of itself isn't very descriptive).

"Free your mind" drugs aren't really what I'm picturing, as I don't see "creativity" as a major problem in most people's reasoning skills. Identifing corrolations and being able to correctly identify, address, and solve complex problems are conditions that could be improved upon.

I'm not convinced there's a drug that can do that--to me that sounds like the job of education and experience--but it is obvious that some people are naturally better at those skills than others, and this sounds like a proposed way to increase those skills. And I, like always, conceede that I am not trained in this field, so I'm sure they know more about these processes than I do.

*'ambiguous' ... I need a new word; I think i've used that at least 10 times in the last two days.

__________________

I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
"In order to increase awareness of the homeless, security have been given binoculars."

I never said that one drug is a catch-all fix-all. Simply that certain drugs are useful tools for certain situtaions and applications. Notice above I said that education, health, clear thinking, and wellbeing are concretely more important than any drug with regards to effect on cognitive ability.

PS: If it makes you feel better I am probably equally disgusted by what the "hippie" movement did and still does through pervading taboo's tpwards certain drugs.

Well it depends on what your goals are in life. If you want to be a great scientist, then education, training and knowledge are most certainly your core focus. This doesn't rule out that certain chemicals may aid you in your path towards your goal.

If your goal is to become an artist or musician, then education is probably least effective for you, though most musicians I know are extremely smart. My friend Steve, best drummer I have heard, is also getting his doctorate in physics in California, Sacramento I believe. He also claims that psychedelics have enhanced his understanding and conceptions towards physics. Not the top of his list, but worth a mention.

__________________
"In the end the aggressors always destroy themselves, making way for others who know how to cooperate and get along. Life is much less a competitive struggle for survival than a triumph of cooperation and creativity."- Fritjof Capra

www.gonzoscience.com

So, you are not a doctor. You are just reporting what you think and what your friend Steve, the drummer, thinks.

I could tell you what my alcoholic friends think about the "benefits" of alcohol.

Musicians have education through experience. Not many musicians that never play or practice are very good. That's still education and experience (which often are one in the same).

I'm not the biggest "anti-legalization" guy you'll find. I'm against it, but not so firmly that I won't accept dissenting arguments. Most of all, I don't use, haven't used, and don't plan on using--thus don't have a real big interest in it.

But; you won't convince me that it's a usefull or necessary tool for "increasing creativity" in any particular situation. For what it's worth, I wouldn't make that argument for alcohol either, and I am a drinker. I drink because I like to; nothing more, nothing less. Personally, I'd give the legalization movement a lot more credit if they'd quit coming up with bogus excuses for it, and admit to the same reasoning. "We want to because we like to"

...sorry, I fear this is taking this thread waaay off topic, and into another one that's been discussed extensively (though typically ends badly) before. I am willing to discuss it via PM; or a seperate thread (if Mod's think it's appropriate).

__________________

I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
"In order to increase awareness of the homeless, security have been given binoculars."

TANSTAAFL

I suspect there will be a price to be paid for anyone who relies on such drugs. What that price would be I don't know...but there always is one.

I think the original OP article is about the ligitimate use of (low doses of) some legal drugs such as Ritalin. But the OP poster is trying to apply those ideas and rules to various illegal drugs that he and some of his friends like. Therefore, I think the OP and followups by the OP poster are very misleading and are not "scientific".

Reading and writing was once the privy of a few. In some ways this was a practicality, as writing a book by hand, was very ,very slow, so books were very, very, rare. But with the invention of the printing press, books could be made extremely cheaply, available to all who could afford them ,which was pretty much everybody if you made them cheap enough. But still only a few could read. Eventually a movement started to give every child this ability, this enhancement. It has been a marked success. However, I do believe there is a downside to this enhancement, as pervasive as it may be. People in preliterate societies often have, by modern standards, prodigious feats of recall and memory, something we have lost, if only by lack of training, in our literate world. Of course, now we can place the memories outside our heads, in written form, and this is very useful and can allow words to be passed on, long after the speaker is dead. Still, it must be said, that by taking this enhancement, we have lost something. Not our humanity, literacy is a great gift to the world. But with every boon comes a bane. Now we are talking about drugs, that directly, and with little effort on the users part, change the place we live. Learning to read and write is hard, ask any kindergartener or adult student learning for the first time. Effective studying takes effort. Computers, and the Internet, are confusing places at first. But a pill? What effort does that take? I am sorry, I don't like the concept enhancement drugs.

__________________

Yes, I get that. Hence my response that I don't find it a valid argument. Though any debate on the merits/drawbacks to those particular substances are best suited for another venue (based on, as you said, the fact that they're poster opinon and not part of the thread's scientific study).

__________________

I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
"In order to increase awareness of the homeless, security have been given binoculars."