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Old 09-January-2009, 10:17 AM
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Default How Life Begins?

First: this quote about the HUP should give you some insight into my thoughts.

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Durakken, your problem seems to be with the way that the uncertainty principle is usually expressed. It's normally described as a limit on what we can know about the particles, but what they really mean by it is that it's a limit on the particles themselves. It's not that the questions we might ask about the particles have real answers and we just can't know what those answers are; it's that the answers really don't exist. The particles don't exist in a hidden or secretive state; they exist in a physically truly undetermined state themselves. If we were to anthropomorphize them, the correct analogy would be not that they're keeping secrets from us, but that they haven't made up their own minds and thus don't know what they're up to themselves. The undeterminedness is a physical phenomenon inherent to the particles, not just a logic puzzle inherent to our experimental methods.
The uncertainty principle shows that particles first 'exist' in an undetermined state. As they enter their definite state, they do so in a semi-random manner. A manner which is determined by probabilities and the physics that are acting on them. And so... we get a vast universe of variety and oddness.

My question is this: Could life be the random occurrence of a control mechanism for these particles? Similar to the way a transistor is able to control the state of a current (try not to cloud your brain with the specifics of that crude analogy) This control mechanism wouldn't have infinite power, b/c it would still be severely limited by probability... but... perhaps it could have the ability to make simple decisions ... and therefore the ability to evolve into complex organisms over the course of millions of years.
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Old 09-January-2009, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by AonSao View Post
My question is this: Could life be the random occurrence of a control mechanism for these particles? Similar to the way a transistor is able to control the state of a current (try not to cloud your brain with the specifics of that crude analogy) This control mechanism wouldn't have infinite power, b/c it would still be severely limited by probability... but... perhaps it could have the ability to make simple decisions ... and therefore the ability to evolve into complex organisms over the course of millions of years.
If you don't go into the specifics, I would say, yes, definitely, and the proof is that it has already occurred in our case. But, also, without specifics, where does that get you?
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Old 09-January-2009, 11:29 AM
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I just meant don't explore the specifics of how a transistor is like a particle control mechanism. Please do explore the specifics of how this might lead to life as we know it My brain hurts.
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Old 09-January-2009, 11:32 AM
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I understood that, I meant the specifics of the control mechanism.
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Old 09-January-2009, 03:07 PM
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My question is this: Could life be the random occurrence of a control mechanism for these particles?
I am skeptical that the beginning of life is the result of any particular quantum phenomenon. After reading Stuart Kauffman's At Home in the Universe, I lean more toward the very beginning of life as an emergent property of autocatalytic sets of diverse molecules. Life appears to reside in the classical domain.
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Old 09-January-2009, 07:28 PM
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While uncertainty may very well play a role, I think life has a better chance when there's certainty involved, particularly after a nice candelight dinner...
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Old 09-January-2009, 08:09 PM
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Should this be in ATM?
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Old 10-January-2009, 05:19 PM
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Why would it be in ATM? Are candlelight dinners no longer the norm?

Seriously, what AonSao proposes is nothing more than self-organization, a fact we've observed throughout the natural world.
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