I'll be blunt: Using the term "maths" is an incredibly lazy, and grammatically improper shortening of the term Mathematics.

Except in Britain, where it's origens date to 1911, so no foul on those of you across the pond.

But it used to be I'd very rarely see it here on BAUT. Then it began creeping in, little by little, perhaps a few people who'd lived in the UK, then some who'd only visited it, or folks who were born in the UK but who resettled in the US.

Now don't get me wrong, it ain't like I got no sense of grammer, see? And caint I talk like I wanna? Ain't no thing wrong with that, nope.

Seriously, folks - don't get lazy. If you don't want to spell the word out, simply rephrase the sentance, or just use a different word: math.

1. I haven't yet learned the maths behind this.

2. I haven't yet learned the math behind this.

Simpler, predates the longer version by 64 years, and it even saves you a letter!

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If I set the budget, we'd have Ares and more. Unfortunately, I don't set the budget, and Ares is just too expensive and too far out for us to accomplish our goals within the budget we were given.

If we halt the ISS, all versions of Ares, and transport Orion and Altair aboard DIRECTv3's Jupiter family of Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles, we just might make it back to the Moon by 2020.

And how is using "math" less incredibly lazy than using "maths"?

Apart from not irritating you because it's 'merkin rather than British English, that is?

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‘To those who regard “crime fiction” as some sacred icon which must follow a rigid formula, I will always be the man who writes 18-syllable haiku.’Trying to make sense of computers, The Error Log.

You need maths to colour an aluminium brolly.

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It's funny. BAUT I believe was one of the first places I saw the Brit "maths" in use. It looked very funny to me at first. But I think "math" is pure American, and most of the rest of the Brit influence English speakers will use "maths".

-Richard

Something like 'aluminum', I'll bet.

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If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers.

Let's don't get behind on the shhhhh-edule here.

-Richard

Leftentants keep to the proper skedule. Unlike those lazy lutenants.

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You know this reminds of something. Way back in grade school, around
4th grade, there was this kid, name of Russell, I believe, whose parents were Brits -- but he was born here. He spoke with a normal 'merican accent around all of us, but when he talked to his parents, he switched to a perfect British accent.

It was the darndest thing. He couldn't easily consciously switch. When talking with his parents, some automatic Brit switch flipped, and then when he talked with everybody else, it flipped back to American -- but he didn't see to have good conscious control of that switch. Language and the brain is a many splendored thing.

I lost touch with him ages ago and I wonder where he is now....

-Richard

I think I first saw it in my freshman level French class.

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Clear skies Maksutov.

"Origens" is lazy and grammatically improper, too. But that's fine, people misspell words. I tolerate "aswell," though it irritates me to no end.

"Maths" is acceptable from non-American posters, because they may have learned British English instead of American English.

As long as we can be blunt, reading this post is the biggest waste of time I've experienced on BAUT, outside the CT/ATM forums.

We had Math classes in school as long as I can remember. Yes, we all knew the term was Mathematics. But you were required to take a "Math" class every year, or later, every semester. In college we had introductory "Math" for those who didn't test out of it (believe it or not, I did). The word "Math" doesn't bother me, nor do I think it's lazy. The word "Maths" looks funny to me, but so do many British terms. I don't think there's anything wrong with using it, nor do I think it's lazy.

I think it's funny that everyone saying the shortening of Mathematics is lazy also regularly use acronyms like Nasa or BAUT. *shrug*

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I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
"In order to increase awareness of the homeless, security have been given binoculars."

It gets more fun when the same word means different things. In England, I came across a sign that said, "do not drive on pavement"--hmm? are they supposed to drive on the grass? And some commonplace American terms (and movie names) are vulgar in the UK....

I wonder if Brits new to Unix think the bin directory is like the trashcan icon...

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Todd (Bowie, MD, US, North America, Earth, Sol System, Vega region, Local Bubble, Orion arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Virgo A Cluster, Virgo supercluster, the universe in which spock is clean shaven)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

personal page: http://blog.astrosketches.info

It can get hilarious. Once when a spontaneous teaparty happened where I lived in England, several people arrived unannounced, and some order was required to deal with cake and crockery. 'Just a minute' said someone, 'I'll lay the table'. Two young Americans looked at each other, and I heard one say to the other under his breath 'Jeez - I've gotta see this'.

I also find the term "maths" a bit odd, but that's just because it's not how things are said around here. I don't think it's due to an assumption of a plural where none exists, for I think we can and do distinguish between different types of mathematics. And to illustrate my first point, I spell it out in the second.

BTW, I really dislike it when people refer to citizens of the US (or anyone who might consider themselves a type of american) as "'merkin" as it resembles another word of the same spelling. Is it based on the thought that people from my land are fake and whorish?

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"What you think you thought you saw you did not see." Agent J, MiB - Manhatten Bureau

And I find 'math' really odd, because I've never heard anything other than 'maths'. The plural is derived from the Greek ending -ikos meaning 'pertaining to' and in plural -ika as a neuter plural generally 'things pertaining to', from which words like economics derive. I find the plural quite natural, presumably through habit.

I have never thought that there is a derogatory connotation to the (quite recent) label. I can only imagine it is a simple reproduction of what the word 'American' sounds like to a Brit when spoken badly by a citizen of the US, in a similar fashion to the name of the English spoken in Australia, referred to as 'Strine'. It is as simple as that. I don't actually know which obscene or offensive word you might be referring to.

We, in the US, tend to use specialized or proper nouns for different types of math, and since we use them as subtypes, the umbrella term is usually used as a singular instead of as a plural. However, I'm not sure if mathematics is meant to be plural, but we tend to use it as singular.

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"What you think you thought you saw you did not see." Agent J, MiB - Manhatten Bureau

Well, I suppose since it was your choice to do so... Who's to blame?

I'm surprised, and delighted by the various responses, as well as by the directions they've gone. Thanks!

- Just a merkin...

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If I set the budget, we'd have Ares and more. Unfortunately, I don't set the budget, and Ares is just too expensive and too far out for us to accomplish our goals within the budget we were given.

If we halt the ISS, all versions of Ares, and transport Orion and Altair aboard DIRECTv3's Jupiter family of Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles, we just might make it back to the Moon by 2020.

So you use the wrong form of "its/it's" in a sentence immediately after a complaint about something being "grammatically improper"? Everyone seems to think it's just Gillian who gets irritated by this, but I am just as bad.

(I was going to complain about something else you said, too, but on rereading, I realise you hadn't said it after all. So consider yourself shouted at, then abjectly apologised to!)

I teach (British) English to foreign students, and sometimes, for light relief, I get them to discuss differences between UK and US English. I particularly like the fact that in a restaurant, you pay the bill with a cheque in the UK, and you pay the check with a bill in the US.

Little moments of delight in a hard-working teacher's daily life...

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Nothing beautiful was ever made from gravel.

The meaning referred to as derogatory is a pubic wig.

Your own words

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‘To those who regard “crime fiction” as some sacred icon which must follow a rigid formula, I will always be the man who writes 18-syllable haiku.’Trying to make sense of computers, The Error Log.

Thanks, I've never heard the word, and it does not appear in the SOED. I still think my explanation is the more likely, and the homonym accidental.

It is a translation of τά μαθηματικά (Aristotle) things relating to mathematics, so technically a plural. This often happens translating from Greek, for example Athens from Αθηναι, where the city is clearly singular in English, but plural in Greek.

Odds bodkins! me tooI'm almost certain that you're wrong about that.

Quite possibly, but as far as English slang goes, I can usually see the point of a derogatory name, of which there are very many. I fail totally to see the point of this one, if this connection is to be made. I'm afraid someone is going to have to spell it out for me if they want to convince me.

ETA: The wife agrees that the offending word is very obscure in English English, she has never heard it either. It's thus hardly likely to be used in slang.

It's just amusing.

It starts with "I'm a 'merican'" and goes from there.

In "Dr. Strangelove", Peter Sellers (among the other roles) played President Merkin Muffley.


-Richard

So what's wrong with non-English natives preferring the British spelling to the American one?
Personally, I only use "maths" when referring to the school subject. It's how I learned it. "We have maths at 10 o'clock today" but "Do the math".

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Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.

"Half of what I say is meaningless, but I say it so that the other half may reach you."

Perhaps some people think it's a quaint throwback to the past era of British supremacy, and ignores the current state of American supremacy.

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"What you think you thought you saw you did not see." Agent J, MiB - Manhatten Bureau

It bothers me also.