Unfortunately, I was in bed and nearly asleep when it happened.

Seems and F-16 at the air base next door had a malfunction on take off and part of the emergency procedure is to drop external stores.

I mention this here, not because it's really odd, and a little scary, but because I have a pretty clear recollection of my thought process when I heard an actual, confirmed high explosive device go off near enough to make the house shake.

I was in bed, and nearly asleep when the boom came. With the sound was a vibration from all over the room. My mind started to process the sound.

The very first thing I thought of was a garbage truck bouncing an empty dumpster. But that wouldn't make the house shake.

Next was a car crash, but I've heard those before and they take longer to happen. This sound was faster than the sound of crushing an empty aluminum can by stepping on it.

Finally, there was the thought that it was a plane crash. There have been planes on maneuvers all this week (including F/A -18 which are not Air Force, but are stupid-loud).

When I didn't hear any sirens, I fluffed up the covers and went to sleep.

I find it interesting that it wasn't until I started to write this out that the thought it was a gunshot never occurred to me. I've heard a lot of guns go off, and this was unlike any of them.

__________________
I'm not evil.
An evil person would do the things I think up.

Was it a malfunction that caused it to detonate, or was that by design?

I'd have thought that dropping a live bomb armed would be quite a lot more dangerous than dropping it unarmed, and picking up the pieces later.

The linked article is all I know. They said it was on take off, and one bomb seems like a pretty light load out. I'm assuming that they were the Mk 82 or 84's and I don't have the faintest idea if those can be dropped inert. They did close down the freeway nearby to look for other explosives though, so it's possible.

__________________
I'm not evil.
An evil person would do the things I think up.

Bombs are armed with mechanical or electrical fuses. If you pickle them unarmed, they probably won't detonate in dirt/forest area, just burying themselves. Against the hard rock surrounding Hill, under the right conditions you may get enough heat of compression for detonation.

Tog, if they half a malf on takeoff, it wasn't armed.

The term "inert" is never used with live weapons, armed or unarmed, or even practice boms which contain nothing but a shotgun cartridge which explls marking powder, but only with dummy bombs (filled with concrete), or with weapons from which the primer, fuse, explosive, or incendiary material has been removed.

Given the "dark grey cloud of smoke" that was reported, the "thuds," and the "rumbles," I suspect the munitions didn't detonate at all, but rather, that was simply the fuel in the tanks detonating on impact.

By contrast, munitions don't rumble, or produce much smoke. Even at a distance of several miles, it's a much sharper report.

__________________
If I set the budget, we'd have Ares and more. Unfortunately, I don't set the budget, and Ares is just too expensive and too far out for us to accomplish our goals within the budget we were given.

If we halt the ISS, all versions of Ares, and transport Orion and Altair aboard DIRECTv3's Jupiter family of Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles, we just might make it back to the Moon by 2020.

I didn't hear or feel any rumbling. It was s single, sharp "thump" sort of a thing which made my house shake. This was just about two miles away from where the little map inset said the tanks hit.

I knew "inert" wasn't the right word, but it was the best I could come up with to describe it.

The impact site was right in amongst the bunkers, so it's possible that the area was reinforced.

A drop tank explosion would have been a lot longer sound wouldn't it? This left me with the impression that it was over faster than a gunshot report. It was actually a lot like an M-80, only seriously big.



ETA: And now I see the inset saying that the tank exploded, but the main article says the bomb destroyed the shed and transformer.

__________________
I'm not evil.
An evil person would do the things I think up.

Even if a bomb does not explode, it can still destroy a shed and transformer, so that's not conclusive.

Is it normal for fuel tanks to explode on impact? What's the mechanism causing the explosion? I can imagine that at the time of impact, there's sparks but no fumes, and later many fumes but no sparks. When is the fire triangle complete?

__________________
To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

If it breaks up on impact, there a lot of splashing so it's aerosolized for a nice large surface to air ratio so that's those two legs covered right at the start and a spark should be enough.

__________________
‘To those who regard “crime fiction” as some sacred icon which must follow a rigid formula, I will always be the man who writes 18-syllable haiku.’Trying to make sense of computers, The Error Log.

Jet fuel is hard to ignite, drop tanks are composites, no spark there. Regular 'bombs are armed by after they are released by a small prop spinning in the slipstream, that ensures that they are safe while on the aircraft. A pin attached to the aircraft and through the shaft stops the prop spinning before release. On the ground a pin with a big 'arming' tag does the same job. If a bomb is dropped too low it doesn't have time to arm and will just hit the ground. In the Falklands the Aergentinians were flying extremely low over the hills to avoid SAM fire from the RN ships close in to the coast, their bombs weren't in the air long enough after release to arm themselves. Several Frigates were hit but the bombs hadn't armed and didn't go off otherwise there were at least 3 that would have been sunk.

__________________
All Moderation in Purple
To report a post (even this one) to the moderation team, click the reporting icon in the upper-right corner of the post:
─────────────────────────────────────────────
◄Rules For Posting To This Board ► ◄Forum FAQs ► ◄ Conspiracy Theory Advice ► ◄ Alternate Theory Advice ►

Given the bunkers angled sides, the main shock was undoubtedly deflected. Your "single, sharp 'thump'" that shook your house would be about right for a blast-deflected 500-lb-er at 2 miles.

About a full second.

Then at least one of the 500-lbers lit off.

There you go! I should have read the article more thoroughly.

Right you are, Henrik!

There's plenty of steel pieces on composite tanks, most notably the attachment points.

Actually, that acts as a mechanical timer to arm the fuse.

After release. The pin is actually the trigger which activates the mechanical timer, and is attached to a lanyard which is attached to the hard points. At release, the weapon drops, and when the lanyard reaches full extension, it pulls the pin which allows the timer to spin in the slipstream. This simply turns a screw, which engages (aka "arms") the fuse. It's the fuse which, when triggered, detonates the primer, which then detonates the bomb.

No. Ground arming procedures involve removing safety wire from the mechanical time and attaching the lanyard to the pin. Also accomplished during ground arming procedures is a third check of the timer settings, which are set before the bombs are ever loaded.

This part sounds reasonable. Just a few errors in the previous areas.

__________________
If I set the budget, we'd have Ares and more. Unfortunately, I don't set the budget, and Ares is just too expensive and too far out for us to accomplish our goals within the budget we were given.

If we halt the ISS, all versions of Ares, and transport Orion and Altair aboard DIRECTv3's Jupiter family of Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles, we just might make it back to the Moon by 2020.

You misread the part about spinning before release Mugs. Tog had it correct; I guess you read his "stops" as "starts".

__________________
To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

It doesn't spin before release as the lanyard/pin combo isn't pulled until the munition drops clear of the aircraft.

"Clear of the aircraft" is a principle safety consideration in the release of live munitions.

__________________
If I set the budget, we'd have Ares and more. Unfortunately, I don't set the budget, and Ares is just too expensive and too far out for us to accomplish our goals within the budget we were given.

If we halt the ISS, all versions of Ares, and transport Orion and Altair aboard DIRECTv3's Jupiter family of Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles, we just might make it back to the Moon by 2020.

I see reported today that there were two 500-pounders. One exploded. The other is 17 feet underground, which they're going to detonate today. Prepare to be rudely awakened again, Tog!

__________________
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

Attempt 3 just went off, but it sounded like it came from the wrong direction. Yeah, schedule that for 8 AM on a Saturday. That's good community relations. I was already awake for this, but I had to look it up to see what the sounds were. After the third (that came from the wrong direction), there were a lot of emergency vehicle sirens. No smoke form anywhere we can see though.

I wish I'd known about this in advance. There is a park on a hillside that overlooks the north end of the base. I bet an 8" SCT would do pretty well at about 5 miles out

__________________
I'm not evil.
An evil person would do the things I think up.

And there went attempt #4. They seem to have about a 30 minute reset.

__________________
I'm not evil.
An evil person would do the things I think up.

That's what I posted. the pin stops the prop from spinning before it's released. And theres a big tag on the safety pin that is in the bomb before it's stowed. I have one attached to the zip puller on one of My A2 jackets. It has engraved on it 'Safety Pin Not to be removed unti bomb is stowed in Aircraft' On the reverse it says 'If bomb is not dropped replace pin before removing Arming Wire'

Strictly speaking the on e I have is an RAF tag and shouldn't be on an A2. It'd also a modern (ish) one. In WW2 the USAAF used card tags not metal. Aircrew attached them to their zip pullers as a 'good luck' charm but for everyday wear a card one wouldn't last me more than a few goes.

__________________
All Moderation in Purple
To report a post (even this one) to the moderation team, click the reporting icon in the upper-right corner of the post:
─────────────────────────────────────────────
◄Rules For Posting To This Board ► ◄Forum FAQs ► ◄ Conspiracy Theory Advice ► ◄ Alternate Theory Advice ►

Ok - I re-read your first post and see what was being said. We have some seriously different styles of writing!

__________________
If I set the budget, we'd have Ares and more. Unfortunately, I don't set the budget, and Ares is just too expensive and too far out for us to accomplish our goals within the budget we were given.

If we halt the ISS, all versions of Ares, and transport Orion and Altair aboard DIRECTv3's Jupiter family of Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles, we just might make it back to the Moon by 2020.

I think the issues here are procedural differences not just between armed services, but different countries' armed services.

Navair we used pin and flags to safety the CADS that blast the ordinance clear of the bird. Bombs are not just "let go" on fast moving birds due to slip stream issues bringing the bomb back to you. Those show up near the middle of the bomb and above it.

Now while I did missiles, when at sea I lived cheek and jowl with A-6 and A-7 ground crews and saw many of their birds getting armed up at close range. (C'mon! Who here wouldn't stop and watch that?) And the thick wire that holds the arming fuse props at the front of the bomb also has a pin and flag system.

As do the optics on special muntions like 'winders and mavericks. They have rubber covers to protect them from the harsh sun of foriegn climes. All sorts of different external stores take different procedures for safety unique to the piece.

In my day drop tanks were sheet aircraft aluminum. The ship's main airframes shop could knock out a good study one, (has to go over Mach 2 and stay together) in a day and a half, less than that, if you didn't want it painted.

Now I recall this one time....

Somebody in the A-6 community did a dreadful error of "pulling a flag but not the pin" on a CBU's rear release. Tempo of operations error, glad I didn't do it. So when the pilot goes to blow the crap out of whatever, one of his clusterbombs only partly releases. The front release worked well and this let the bomb bend the rear release far enough that it pulled the front fuse wire.

I'm sure Mugs can relate just how thrilled the aircrew must have been when the rest of their flight confirmed that indeed the fuse was spinning.


<Sorry guys- left this post half finished on my machine all day. My oldest daughter, who got married and moved away to South Carolina eight months ago surprised us all by coming out to visit for her Mom's birthday>

__________________
In your rush to call everyone "entrenched" or closed-minded or "limited" you fail to note that the "limit" here has a very natural boundary: that point at which the evidence stops. - JayUtah

Science fiction was never meant to be an educational tool. - Editor Amazing Tales

Here is a pic of my Tag

Here is a card WW2 tag

__________________
All Moderation in Purple
To report a post (even this one) to the moderation team, click the reporting icon in the upper-right corner of the post:
─────────────────────────────────────────────
◄Rules For Posting To This Board ► ◄Forum FAQs ► ◄ Conspiracy Theory Advice ► ◄ Alternate Theory Advice ►

Well i never loaded bombs, but I have dropped them. The ones I dropped were by accident. I was vertrepping a pallet of 3 1000lb HE bombs when the pallet decided to fall apart. The bombs (without fusing mechanisms) landed on the flight deck directly above the Chiefs Mess. There was adequate shock and awe to dislodge the ceiling tiles and ruin the coffee of a number of CPO's. No explosions but lots of excitement on the flight deck!

__________________
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again."

Alexander Pope, 1709

How do they detonate a bomb 17 ft under ground? First dig it more or less out, or some remote controlled technique?

__________________
To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

I didn't see it happen, but they did have four goes at it. With something big. My guess would be that the first couple were to clear out enough of the surrounding material to get the second two ( they sounded bigger) charges close enough to do the job. I can't imagine digging out a live bomb with anything people would be operating.

__________________
I'm not evil.
An evil person would do the things I think up.

That technique makes sense. The added benefit is that there's always the chance that the bomb may detonate due to the force of the first set of charges.

Jumping Jehosaphat!

You hurt the coffee!?!




I must have been in ground zero of at least half a hundred vertreps. Most of the loads I've seen lost (Maybe four all told) were fortunately over water. I'm just an observer mind you, but it looks rather startling to have all that extra lift suddenly. Least ways from what I could tell from the faces of the aircrews.

(Good Lord, Jack, the paperwork from that must have outweighed the load you lost.)

__________________
In your rush to call everyone "entrenched" or closed-minded or "limited" you fail to note that the "limit" here has a very natural boundary: that point at which the evidence stops. - JayUtah

Science fiction was never meant to be an educational tool. - Editor Amazing Tales

The newspaper said shaped charges.

__________________
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

Newspapers always say shaped charges. The sheeple still believe it. Mêêêh mêêêêêêh.

__________________
To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

Actually, Nicolas, that's how they'd do it, with repetitive attempts until the much larger secondary explosion confirmed they'd nailed it.

And why not? It gives the folks in EOD something to do.

__________________
If I set the budget, we'd have Ares and more. Unfortunately, I don't set the budget, and Ares is just too expensive and too far out for us to accomplish our goals within the budget we were given.

If we halt the ISS, all versions of Ares, and transport Orion and Altair aboard DIRECTv3's Jupiter family of Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles, we just might make it back to the Moon by 2020.

I know. It was an early morning attempt at humour.

__________________
To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

Surprisingly little paperwork on my behalf, however the supply officer had some splaing to do to Captain about why he was shipping bombs in bad pallets. Incidentally, EOD deep sixed the now suspect ordinance as was policy at that time. My favorite pallet breakage story was a large crate of eggs. I couldn't begin to guess how many there were but probably at least a 1000 or so. We were resupplying a sub tender who's name I will wit hold, when about ten feet off the deck the entire pallet disintegrated and deposited the largest omelet I have ever seen on their new non-skid deck.
Back on the subject of bombs I have one last story and actually it was the most terrifying of the bunch. We had a pallet of 25 5 inch artillery shells also decide to break apart over the flight deck, though in this case we only dropped roughly half on the deck before pickling the remainder in the pond. The bad part here is that these are not inert, and my friends in EOD were most concerned over this mess. Fortunately no one was hurt in any of these incidents. I probably had something like 3000 lifts over my career vertrepping and all in all these are the only incidents of pallets breaking that I recall. Thats not bad stats.

__________________
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again."

Alexander Pope, 1709

Jack,

Nastiest one I ever saw was off of Singapore. A pallet of "Daisy Milk" or was it "Magnolia Milk"? Hmmm, my second cruise, so it had to have been Magnolia Milk. Anyway soymilk in an early version of the juice box. The helo released it about two feet off the deck and the pallet and load had a catastrophic structural failure. Even worse, all the milk-like substance hadn't merely gone bad, it had gotten vile. Turned into home-made stinky tofu.

It was so bad that it was unapproachable, and when even GOD and the flightdeck chief couldn't get a bunch of poor bloody airmen to huck it overboard, (and we LOVED hucking things overboard, really, we did) they had to bulldoze the whole mess off the elevator with a forklift, then hose the deck.

I remember the forklift driver jumping out of the forklift as soon as the mess pulled itself overboard (it was still banded and shrinkwrapped) and abandoned the running forklift right at the deck edge. They had to find a new driver to move it, as the first one couldn't be found.

Even the escorts trailing us could smell it!

__________________
In your rush to call everyone "entrenched" or closed-minded or "limited" you fail to note that the "limit" here has a very natural boundary: that point at which the evidence stops. - JayUtah

Science fiction was never meant to be an educational tool. - Editor Amazing Tales

Ok, well, that got a chuckle out of me and put a smile on my face!

Good thing subs can...

...submerge!

Certainly passable! Thankfully, they're designed to NEVER go boom when they're simply dropped on the ramp.

Dropping them from hundreds of feet at more than 200 kts, however... Hence Tog's OP.

__________________
If I set the budget, we'd have Ares and more. Unfortunately, I don't set the budget, and Ares is just too expensive and too far out for us to accomplish our goals within the budget we were given.

If we halt the ISS, all versions of Ares, and transport Orion and Altair aboard DIRECTv3's Jupiter family of Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles, we just might make it back to the Moon by 2020.