I'm not a fan of cats. It's not that I hate them, it just that I'm allergic and I grew up playing with dogs that were double my weight. The GF recently got a new kitten. It's the demon offspring of two feral cats that live in her niece's back yard. Since it looks like that "we'll only keep it for a week" thing was a lie (I knew it would be), is there any way at all to train it that biting is wrong. That climbing up the PC tower is wrong. And that sitting in my lap while I'm typing this and chasing his tail around in circles (with claws) is also wrong.

I've tried the time out box.
I've tired the water bottle.
I've tried light but meaningful smacks on bits where no real damage can occur.

Nothing works. It seems to be dumber than my iguana was. Any tips? Is it just too young to make the association between the negative things that happen and its own action that lead to them? It's on solid food but just barely.

It's convinced that sleeping on a human shoulder with its tail in our mouths is its rightful place.

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I'm not evil.
An evil person would do the things I think up.

Consistancy is the only way. If the cat is sitting on your lap and starts biting, say, "No!" then put it down. Don't ever let it get away with biting. Do the same with all the other bad behaviors and the cat will eventually learn.

Growling works with mine, get the growl right and you can have a cat sitting 2 inches from food it really likes and it won't make a move on it.
She'll look at it constantly and her eyes will follow every bite I take, but she won't get any closer.
She's not waiting for me to give her anything, because that will never happen, she's waiting for me to finish eating which is the time I put the plate down next to her food bowls, which is the signal that it's her turn to eat.

As for making the association, when it comes to training cats, you have to be even faster with the NO! that with a dog, he may also be too young yet for it to really sink in, but keep training because at some time he will get it.

Do you have any idea how old he was when he was taken from his mother?
Kittens taken too young can have developmental and social problems later in life, it seems like cat mothers and siblings are normally the best for teaching proper behavior towards other people to their offspring.

As for the tail in mouth thing, bite the tail(gently), he'll get it in time that putting it there will hurt, even if he isn't yet clear on it being his and knowing where the tip actually is.

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‘To those who regard “crime fiction” as some sacred icon which must follow a rigid formula, I will always be the man who writes 18-syllable haiku.’Trying to make sense of computers, The Error Log.

Cats are cats, they'll do as they please. I doubt it can be trained to do (or not do) as you like, aside from using the litter box.

You could seek expert advice via Google.

I love cats and their willful "naughtiness." They are never entirely tame nor do they ever truly belong to a human.

Sorry, but...it's likely you who will have to adapt.

We wish our cat were more sociable for instance, but she's not. It's "her call" when she wants affection, to show affection, etc. Cats are the boss.

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There in the valley of Scorpio, beneath the Cross of jade
Smoking on the seashell pipe the gypsies had made
We sat and we dreamed a while...in that crystal thought time in Mexico. ~Donovan

I'm not sure on the age. The mother wasn't around that we could see, just a total of 5 kittens.

I've been doing the "no" thing and putting him down, but he just climbs right back up.

I'm not biting the tail. I've smelled the tail. No smell like that is going into my mouth without a fight.

The adult cat hates the kitten and growls or hisses at it every time she sees it. The other day it nearly pounced her twitching tail while she was growling at it. It didn't back off until she took a swipe at it. Funny thing was, that swipe missed. We've pulled her claws out of the faces of 2 other cats that got too close to her, and we've pulled several out of the face of the neighbor's chihuahua. I know she's a better shot than that. after the swipe, the kitten backed off for a few seconds then went on about it's business like it never even saw her. It doesn't react to the sound at all, but I know it can hear. I tested that bit because I didn't think it could be that dumb.

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I'm not evil.
An evil person would do the things I think up.

Kittens are a bit clueless at that young age, but they grow up to be very intelligent creatures. When my Obi (guess who he was named after? No, go on, you'll never get it ) was a mere baby, the main thing I learnt was that if you try and stop him doing something (eg. climbing up onto the mantelpiece), he'll just wait until you're not around and then do it anyway.

Have a very limited number of rules that you enforce rigorously and let everything else be water off a duck's back. They grow out of the kitten stage fast enough. The only rule I ever enforced was not allowing him up onto the kitchen counter where food was prepared and the gas hob itself. I did this by chucking some screwed up paper onto the lit hob - you could see that he didn't quite understand what was happening but it definitely left an impression on him.

Also, not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but you don't own a cat, the cat owns you.

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"Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools" - D. Bader

I'm no cat expert. However, I've trained quite a few dogs and borrowed a trick or two for our cats. We have brother and sister Maine Coon (mixes?) that we rescued as adults. Jackson has a habit of chewing fingers when he's getting his affection fix. To correct this in puppies, I would grab pup's lower jaw and hold onto it for a few seconds. With Jackson, I used a similar technique of just sticking the finger he was chewing a little further into his mouth than he liked. It didn't take long for him to get the idea and only needs the occasional reminder these days.

Now, with kittens and their needle-sharp teeth, this could be real contest. Can he stand your finger in his mouth longer than you can?

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Brett
Peters Creek, Alaska
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There are behaviours a cat can be trained out of. D is not allowed on my altar. He was fixated on it for a long time, but constant punishment every time he stepped on it finally did it. It just took a while. He has also learned that, if I'm typing, the keyboard comes first. He has to move out of its way. It took time, because he's not a smart cat, but he did learn in time.

I can't train him not to sit on my shoulder and stick his tail in my face, though.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

The one of mine that tends most to wander back and forth on the table, and therefore naturally steps in front of the screen of the laptop, has leaned not to step on the keyboard, only on the flat parts around it.
I did have to alter the setting for the power button, as it's flat and placed as the only thing in an otherwise allowed zone, I though it easier to just not have it put the laptop to sleep that to teach the cat that "OK, you may walk past me while I'm typing, but only if you just step on the flat part not on the keys and for the flat part don't step on that bit that's exactly two steps in from the edge and no different from anywhere else on the flat part."

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‘To those who regard “crime fiction” as some sacred icon which must follow a rigid formula, I will always be the man who writes 18-syllable haiku.’Trying to make sense of computers, The Error Log.

When one of my cats bits either my sister and I we (I really mean me because my sister can't displicine the cats) I will bop him on the the nose and say no to him. He will stop then until he decides to do it again. That has always works with him because he likes to get into things that he shouldn't. Try that and see if it works.

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"Book'em Danno" Steve McGarrett (Jack Lord) Hawaii Five-O

You have to understand the relationship between cats and humans. There's an old saying that's true: "Dogs have owners. Cats have staff."

Training a cat isn't completely impossible. For example, there are a lot of cats that will answer to a can opener. Other than that, don't expect much.

Your dog looks at you and thinks, "You provide me food, shelter, and all my worldly needs. You must be a god!"

Your cat looks at you and thinks, "You provide me food, shelter, and all my worldly needs. I must be a god!"

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SeanF

"Ask to understand, but don't challenge unless you have the knowledge."--NEOWatcher

The contents of this post are ©2009 by SeanF and may not be copied or retransmitted in any form without the express written consent of SeanF

Humans alternate wildly between the two.

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There are few left who
Stare at the skies with wonder
Wishing to know more;
The clouds still drift by above
But the eyes below are blind.
--Laura Lundberg

Check out my writing, maybe.

D has a small vocabulary of human words he understands. One of them is "scooch," which translates, to him, as "Get off me." He knows when the humans around him are upset and comes to comfort them. And, again, he's not a very smart cat. Another thing he does is fall off the bed.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Cats will eventually adopt to their humans. At least, most will if they are habituated to humans at a young age.

For example, cats will often learn that humans communicate verbally. It takes awhile, because most cat communication is body language. But after time, clever cats will become more vocal and make a range of sounds that gets the points across.

An adult cat will usually adopt to a kitten. When we got our first kitten, it walked up to our adult cat and she swiped at it and knocked it down. It got back up, and came to her again. She knocked it down again. About the third time, I could see she was realizing that this was kind of fun. Within a day or two they were taking turns chasing each other down the hallway (seeing a kitten chase an adult cat was kind of cute).

Cats can be trained to do stuff, ours are not allowed on the kitchen counters or dining room table, for example. They are pretty good about obeying. It just takes time and reinforcement.

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"I'm as accurate as any psychic. And I'm a cartoon!" -- Squidward

"Arrrgh, the laws of physics be a harsh mistress!" -- Bender

I think the word you're looking for is "adapt."

We had a cat for a few years, and then got three(!) new kittens. The first cat did not like them at all. Shortly thereafter, we took them to the vet and dropped them off to be neutered and declawed. She was so happy.

Then we went back to the vet the next day and brought them home.

I swear, the "Why did you bring them back?" was very nearly audible.

She tolerates them now (years later), but I still think she would not mind much if they disappeared.

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SeanF

"Ask to understand, but don't challenge unless you have the knowledge."--NEOWatcher

The contents of this post are ©2009 by SeanF and may not be copied or retransmitted in any form without the express written consent of SeanF

Some cats are much happier being an only cat.

Others get used to other cats in the house.

__________________
"I'm as accurate as any psychic. And I'm a cartoon!" -- Squidward

"Arrrgh, the laws of physics be a harsh mistress!" -- Bender

Maybe.

Or maybe the cats will adopt their humans.

__________________
"I'm as accurate as any psychic. And I'm a cartoon!" -- Squidward

"Arrrgh, the laws of physics be a harsh mistress!" -- Bender

Young kittens can be a bit hard to train (mostly the persistence thing you've encountered). You need to be gentle, but more persistent than them. They will eventually grow out of it. Usually by their third month, they start being receptive to household manners. The water bottle also starts gaining a bit more traction once they've aged a little bit.

If they get up on the counter, pick them up and set them on the floor. If they get up again, pick them up and set them on the floor, along with a stern "No". It can take a little while for this to get traction with a kitten, but sooner or later, they'll figure it out, and that "No" will be enough-ish 90% of the time if your cat is reasonably biddable.

The nice (but two-edged sword) thing about training kittens from weaning is that they come to see you as "mama-for-life", and that goes a long way towards reducing dominance issues. They can be a little clingy at times, but folks who are cat people don't mind so terribly.

[Edit:] Oh, forgot the biting thing. The usual method of ending that is that when they bite (or scratch), you growl or hiss like it hurts (a convincing "OW!" works just as well, IMO). If they're on you, set them down. Then walk away and ignore them totally for a few minutes. It doesn't usually take very long to cure them of the worst of that behavior.

Here's the real secret of training cats. The idea is to understand their natural inclinations, then redirect those behaviors to acceptable outlets. Your kitten wants to climb. So give it a carpet tree (in a prominent place) to climb and claw-mark. (They're not expensive if you can find or make one, and it'll save your furniture.)

Every smidge of your kitten's being is telling it to jump, to perch, to pounce, and to stick their nose everywhere that'll fit. And above all, to be with you. My pair love my PC desk, because there are shelves to explore, upper shelves for jumping and perching, and a nice covered shelf with a (small) blanket in it next to me for their day-naps. Zoe is fast asleep (twitching) in the day bed right now. (Kaylee is snoozing on some blankets on the top shelf of my bedroom closet where it's quiet and warm.)

__________________
And you, to whom adversity has dealt the final blow
With smiling [faces] lyin' to ye' everywhere ye' go
Turn to, and put out all your strength of arm and heart and brain
And like the Mary Ellen Carter, rise again.

Here's one of mine on top of the tree I made from two, flower pedestals I think they were, gotten for free, somewhat ugly, but from the beginning with the legs covered by some string-like windings.
Screwed one on top of a piece of wood I had lying around, screwed that on top of the other so the whole thing ended up about 5½ feet tall, fixed it to the wall so it can't fall over and the cats love it. Climbable all the way to the top, with a platform in the middle and top, with the top around eye height to me when I'm standing.

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‘To those who regard “crime fiction” as some sacred icon which must follow a rigid formula, I will always be the man who writes 18-syllable haiku.’Trying to make sense of computers, The Error Log.

If the kitten is feral and old enough you may never completely break all bad habits. We once acquired two feral kittens several months old who never really warmed up to us. But the techniques listed above should rein in the worst bad habits.

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If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers.

It's a proven scientific fact that cat threads on internet discussion forums can cause cancer.

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Ach, mein Sinn, wo willst du endlich hin, wo soll ich mich erquicken? Bleib' ich hier, oder wünsch' ich mir Berg und Hügel auf den Rücken?
Bei der Welt ist gar kein Rat, und im Herzen steh'n die Schmerzen meiner Missetat, weil der Knecht den Herrn verleugnet hat.

It could be worse!

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We want our children to go to the planets. Burt Rutan 6/21/04 K.I.L.L. S.M.U.R.F.S.
Tuckers! Automotive Oddities! Building my hot rod with the help of the intarwebs Those who would delay scientific progress for a little temporary prosperity shall have neither. MachineCast Save the planet, by leaving it! "To be second in space is to be second in everything," LBJ.

I think I've mentioned this before (a long time ago), but there are two types of kitties

1. Bad Kitties

2. Very Bad Kitties

Heh

I call our long haired cat "dirtbag"

Pete

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PJE

There's so much I don't know about astrophysics. I wish I had read that book by that wheelchair guy.

Consistency, and a thin stream from the water bottle from hiding works well.

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Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.

"Half of what I say is meaningless, but I say it so that the other half may reach you."

I've had five cats over the last three decades, and was pretty successful in training all of them how to interact politely with humans (no biting, scratching, or jumping up in laps without asking).

Consistancy was mentioned. The water bottle works only when used very sparingly; cats respond much better to relational dynamics - they are, after all, very relational pets.

Beyond basic interactions, I've been able to train all of them to do different things, but by different, I mean different for each and every one! I trained one to use the outdoors instead of a litterbox. I trained another to use the toilet (can you tell I hate dealing with litterboxes?). I trained a third to play dead, a forth to roll over on command, and the fifth to enjoy a bath.

I tried training each of them these and more tricks, but which ones each one picked up on was as unique to them as were their personalities, all of which were very distinctly different.

Hmmmm; that's interesting, mugaliens. I can see a definite advantage to teaching a cat to use the toilet instead of dealing with a litter box.

Our cat is a brat. I love how she ignores me/us all day long, then suddenly pounces up with her soft little questioning trill -- as if wondering where WE have been, why don't we give her attention *NOW*? And when I/we do want to hold or pet her, she tears off down the hall and under a bed.

Last Monday I bought the "365 Cats" desk calendar for 2010. I also found a wall calendar of "Bad Cat" -- which is a hoot, so I bought it too. The clerk at Barnes & Noble said he had a feeling I might like cats, lol.

They're quirky critters who never truly belong to a human...that's a definite part of their appeal to me.

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There in the valley of Scorpio, beneath the Cross of jade
Smoking on the seashell pipe the gypsies had made
We sat and we dreamed a while...in that crystal thought time in Mexico. ~Donovan

Yeah, that leads back to something I'd said earlier. Cats learn to use the litter box (or garden) very easily because it's a redirection of something they'll do instinctively. Digging and burying their "output" is a modification of their existing behavioral skill set.

Teaching a cat to use the toilet is different. It's a completely new skill. My cat-raising texts are unanimous that not every cat will be amenable to learning it.

That said, I've seen video of a cat who could turn on the bathroom light, use the can, flush it, turn on the tap for a drink, shut the tap, then jump and close the bathroom light again. The description text claimed the cat learned to do this on its own. *shrug* I'm skeptical about that, but I have no other comment.

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And you, to whom adversity has dealt the final blow
With smiling [faces] lyin' to ye' everywhere ye' go
Turn to, and put out all your strength of arm and heart and brain
And like the Mary Ellen Carter, rise again.

Moose: I'd be skeptical about that claim too.

My cat noticed the 1st time I dyed my hair red in June. The next morning as I stood directly beneath a bright ceiling light, she consciously looked up and looked. She noticed a difference.

That was funny...and sort of weird.

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There in the valley of Scorpio, beneath the Cross of jade
Smoking on the seashell pipe the gypsies had made
We sat and we dreamed a while...in that crystal thought time in Mexico. ~Donovan

I think it was Paula Poundstone who talked about using the water bottle to train her cat to stay off the counter. The cat made her feel guilty the first time when it, not knowing where the sudden squirt of water had come from, ran to her for protection.

I was laying on the floor once, nose-to-nose with the cat, and simply crossed my eyes. She jumped to her feet about a foot away from me and just stared at me with a "what the heck was that?" look.

I was also trying to sneak up behind her once while she was napping on the floor in front of a cabinet. Since she was facing the cabinet, I was watching her reflection. She opened her eyes, made eye contact with my reflection, and immediately turned around to look at me. Surprised me that she seemed to understand what a reflection was.

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SeanF

"Ask to understand, but don't challenge unless you have the knowledge."--NEOWatcher

The contents of this post are ©2009 by SeanF and may not be copied or retransmitted in any form without the express written consent of SeanF