We cannot know anything about what is outside our universe, but we can contemplate it along the lines of the source of applied energy in creation which i discuss in my proposal for a unifying field theory..
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....864#post544864

We can then say a few simple things about what is outside our space.

We can call it the God plane.. as the place where a God may exist, or that the plane is itself God..?

That in conjunction with out 3.14 universe.. we may exist as part of a Multiverse, where in each universe is distinguishable from each other by the values used in their creation.. namely pi.

As if we change the value of pi, we have changed the very fabic of space itself.. which of course we cannot do.. we cannot, not in this universe.
But other universes may thus exist with these fundamental differences, and as such may form a kind of scaled progression if you will.

As is discussed in Metaphysical circles, as planes of existance, with each higher level being on a sub and stellar cosmic levels, improved from the last.

But like i said.. its all conjecture, and is only fun to discuss at this point in our science.

-MT

Do you really want to know.

I'll tell you.

Beyond this universe is another. Beyond that another. Beyond that another. How many universes are there? Nobody knows but it's universes all the way down.

Right, In fact, it COULD be only one.

The universe is infinte always was is now and always will be.
It had no begginnning.

But where did the matter OR the energy come from to begin with?

You must accept that the big bang never happened.
And that the univeres is infinite.
Stars and galaxies go on forever.

Johninf, please confine your Alternative Ideas to the "Against The Mainstream (ATM) Section of this forum.

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Forming opinions as we speak

Thought i would share my uneducated two cents.

why bind dimensions to a shape with a boundary? I think that calling it a universe is somehow misleading. I don't believe that the universe is like a puddle of water, something that you can see and point to and say "ha here's the universe!" Where outside of it is nothingness. What if the same physics and forces still apply no mater where you are. You don't just run out of x, y ,z and time. Why should they end? Vacuum is nothingness and yet its not the end.

Of course there may be huge amounts of energy left over from the big bang. This energy "cooling" still somehow turning to mater traveling at a high rate of speed, and would explain why our universe is still expanding?

"My way of thought is abstract and three dimensional,'' I tend to see the world around us in different perspectives and endless possibilities"


If you can't understand my theories; please do not insult."For only insults demis and demoralize you "the individual";furthermore it catergorizes the individual or" individuals," as narrow minded and fearful entities, not wanting to see pass the truth and their own narrow minds, it is good to be objective instead of subject; "this holds truth," but when insults are given with narrow mind set established this may proof harmful to oneself and the human race." Novemeber 18, 2005

Alex E. Campain

The universe probably expands dynamically, to whatever size it needs. There would be nothing outside it, but what's holding us in is the question I'm wondering...Wonder if there is actually some sort of boundary or an end to all of it, it can't go on forever because it could always be one inch bigger than it already is. Forever means it does not end but it has to because nothing goes on forever, so I wonder what it would be like at the edge of the universe..Anyone know something about this sort of thing?

There is no "edge of the universe", just as there is no "edge of the Earth" that the medieval sailers were afraid of falling off of.

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Any day you wake up on "the right side of the dirt" is a good day.

T. Anderson

Hum,
indeed that is the normal view - there is no `outside`.
However, there may be an `edge`.
If any medieval sailors where to venture beyond the `edge`, they would not be able to tell us (they would have left our universe).




( there will always be people who believe the universe is flat.)

I have a related question, I understand that the rule is that matter can not be created nor destroyed. Why is this not automatically thrown out the window? Before anything, there was "nothing", so how does this work? It doesn't, so why do we use the rule?

What if matter can be created, but not destroyed. Would this not be a better way of saying this?

Likely some of what we think we know about the Universe is wrong. Likely there are more galaxies beyond the viable Universe that are receding from us faster than light speed. Many experts feel the Universe has a radius of perhaps 50 light years which is about 3.6 times as far as we can see. Neil

Hi Dragon Star: Matter can be neither created nor distroyed is an old idea. We now know that matter can become energy and energy can become matter. Big bang fans would argue that the tiny cosmic egg contained all the present matter and energy in some form. Neil

Hi Neil,

I understand what your talking about, but I guess I was talking about how it all came to one point(or started in one point), all the matter and energy in a singularity, and thats just how it is just seems weird. Something had to create the matter and energy, and big bang just doesn't explain enough, something is missing. It could be my brain though....

Hum,
The big bang basically does explain where it all the matter came from.

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/que...php?number=631

My view is that Energy/matter is just the interactions of dimensions.
This is balanced out with other things like space/time so that the sum of the universe is zero.

Actually, I don't think they would make this claim, as it seems to indicate a belief that the total energy of the universe, or even a large chunk of the universe, is constant. That is pretty much true for the rest energy of normal matter, but it's not true for photons. Early in the universe, and here I'm talking about long after all the matter had been created, photon energy still dominated by far over matter energy, but that is no longer true by a long shot. Where did all that photon energy go? Poof, energy is not conserved globally in the Big Bang model. This is not viewed as a big problem, as a lot of things get funky in general relativity over large scales.

Seems a little odd to speculate on what is "outside" the universe, because last I checked the universe, by definition, is "all that is". We may find some "higher astral plane" outside the known universe, but since the universe is defined as what it is, that part would ALSO be part of the universe. So, semantically speaking, isn't it accurate to say there really IS nothing beyond the universe?

However, semantics aside, looks like it's all just about finding something beyond this little space/time bubble. Yeah, good luck with that. Seems a bit off to speculate with absolutely no reasonable place to start...

Oh, about that "things inside of things" metaphor, with the computer in a room inside a building etc? Well, what exactly does that mean? It takes a mind to discern where one thing "ends" and another "begins". That moniter is only a discrete thing because we have defined it as such. We could very well have defined it as half of the original defintion (cut the moniter in half in your mind) plus 3 feet off to the left of it. You can cut up the universe in about a billion different ways and apply definitions to it, it's just that our current definitions are the most useful. Look at the universe as a collective whole and that little thought experiment sort of falls apart, doesn't it? Point is, the universe as in the only physical reality we have actually been able to observe can stand on it's own just fine. Any discreteness we do from there is a mental excercize of making things easier to understand. Defining things is a useful mental tool, but the fact that we CAN say the moniter as a discreet item is inside this building in no way should trick us into thinking that must represent some greater truth of infinite layers.

I have a question, if you were to go outside the universe, and turned a flashlight on, how would the light react? Just kinda curious as to how it works. I know the same laws may not apply, but what if they did? The first light in this universe shot in all directions, So what would happen if you were to go outside the universe and turn on a "beam" of light?

If this is a stupid question just don't reply.

50 light years? that's not even an appreciable portion of the distance across this galaxy, much less the universe.

So far, Hubble and some gound-based adaptive optic telescopes have seen out to around 15 BILLION light years - give or take. The light they're collecting was emitted right after the big bang - and it's gone a long way to resolve some questions (like Quasars)

Dragon Star - how light would behave outside our universe would depend on the natural laws in whatever Universe you were currently inhabiting. Since we cannot even guess at what's inside any of whatever problematical universes out there. It's postulating in the face of insufficient data.

Dark Jaguar - the label 'Universe' was applied well before the math existed to suggest the possibility of others like it (or unlike it). This would not be the first time humans kept an inappropriate name.