Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > General > Questions and Answers
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

   

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-November-2005, 02:47 AM
suntrack2's Avatar
suntrack2 suntrack2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: living in a joint family on earth
Posts: 2,872
Default Atomic bomb on moon

suppose the atomic bomb explode on the surface of moon, will the radiation heigher than on the earth? what will be the impact in the moon's upper sky? the phusion process will start smoothly on moon in that bomb ?
and if the cloud mounting on the moon, so is there a great possibility in change of the day temperature on the moon ? how much the toxic particles will be rest on the surface, and how much time it will take to rest on the surface of the moon?




sunil
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-November-2005, 02:56 AM
Veteran1000psychicwars Veteran1000psychicwars is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 3rd Rock/Northern Hemisphere
Posts: 3
Default

You good point make on moon. who bomb moon, bin laden? maybe we go arm to moon and protect?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-November-2005, 04:14 AM
TheBlackCat's Avatar
TheBlackCat TheBlackCat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,431
Default

Why would Bin Laden bomb the moon? All his enemies are right here on Earth.
__________________
I met this wonderful girl at Macy's. She was buying clothes and I was putting Slinkies on the escalator.
-Steven Wright



My Website: The Black Cat's Web Page
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-November-2005, 04:39 AM
cran's Avatar
cran cran is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Goomalling, Western Australia
Posts: 1,271
Default

Sunil, I can't see why anyone would want to set off a nuclear explosion on the Moon - unless it's for a significant (but localised) landscape redevelopment, and there are better ways to address that ...

With a gravity about 1/6 that of Earth, and no atmosphere to speak of, yes the material (radioactive and target) should go higher and spread further ... how long it stays above the surface (and how much, if any, is lost to space) would be "an exercise for the student" and would have to include the 'yield' of the device used, and its proximity to the surface on detonation ...
__________________
Quote:
"I don't know...I'm making it up as I go along!" ...Dr I. Jones

"...and your wise men don't know how it fee-e-e-eels...
to be thick as a brick..." J. Tull

"Nature abhors perfection... cats abhor a vacuum!"

Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-November-2005, 05:17 AM
eburacum45's Avatar
eburacum45 eburacum45 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: old york
Posts: 4,663
Default

One interesting aspect of an atomic blast on the Moon would be that the classic 'mushroom cloud' wouldn't form. This cloud is basically a convection phenomenon, formed when the atmosphere of the Earth is locally heated into an incandescent ball of gas, which has low density and rises, while the air surrounding this fireball is also heated and rises into a column, dragging dust up into the air surrounding the fireball (this dust becomes irradiated and is converted into radioactive 'fallout' dust, much of which would be carried away into the upper atmosphere and transported various distances).

None of this would happen on the Moon; there would be a bright flash, and a crater would form, depending on the height if the explosion; a 'splash' of dust and evaporated rock would be expelled outwards from the crater region, and the mass of the bomb itself would be converted into a very hot (but rapidly dissipating) plasma which would expand in a rough sphere in all directions above the crater and its splash. Yes, the splash of dust and pulverised rock would become irradiated, but this fallout dust would fall rapidly back to the Moon in a starlike pattern of ejecta, and very little would be carried away by the Moon's very thin atmosphere.
That atmosphere would suddenly become somewhat thicker around any such detonation for a short period, because of vaporised material from the Moon's crust and the bomb itself - but would still be a pretty high grade vacuum. You might get an aurora on the Moon for a brief period.

Oh yes- the operation of the bomb itself, the 'phusion' as you put it, would be unaffected. It would work fine.

(edit- post 2k!)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-November-2005, 06:48 AM
suntrack2's Avatar
suntrack2 suntrack2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: living in a joint family on earth
Posts: 2,872
Default

very nice reply eburacum, cran thanks, anyway i was just building the castle that what impact will be made in such course of action on moon. will that plasma reflect sun rays which were coming on the moon's surface by and large?
what impact will be fall on hillium on the moon since it is abundant thereon?
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-November-2005, 07:26 AM
cran's Avatar
cran cran is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Goomalling, Western Australia
Posts: 1,271
Default

Congrats on 2000 posts, eburacum45!

Quote:
suntrack2 - what impact will be fall on hillium on the moon since it is abundant thereon?
For that, Sunil, I will defer to our resident 'rocket scientists' and 'atom-smashers' ...
it's a bit much for simple rockhound-in-training like me

but I think the answer will still depend on the size and placement of your theoretical nuclear device ... for instance, you have at least 3 placement options: 1. above the surface or 'airborne'; 2. on the surface; 3. below the surface - each produce different impact patterns ... but that's about as far as I can go with it ...
__________________
Quote:
"I don't know...I'm making it up as I go along!" ...Dr I. Jones

"...and your wise men don't know how it fee-e-e-eels...
to be thick as a brick..." J. Tull

"Nature abhors perfection... cats abhor a vacuum!"

Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-November-2005, 07:26 AM
gwiz's Avatar
gwiz gwiz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 965
Default

IIRC, in the early days of the space age, both the USSR and USA did feasibility studies of taking a nuclear bomb to the moon. I don't think the rationale was anything beyond being spectacular.
__________________
"The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head" Terry Pratchett
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-November-2005, 07:37 AM
Van Rijn's Avatar
Van Rijn Van Rijn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 10,260
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwiz
IIRC, in the early days of the space age, both the USSR and USA did feasibility studies of taking a nuclear bomb to the moon. I don't think the rationale was anything beyond being spectacular.
Except it wouldn't be spectacular from here. Unless it is a very high yield weapon, it may not be visible to the naked eye, and if it is, only as a brief flash that would be missed if you weren't looking at just the right time. At that distance, even a nuke is a speck.
__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-November-2005, 10:07 AM
Kiwi Kiwi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 501
Default

The following website has an article about early plans for lunar atomic explosions, called "Nuke The Moon!"
http://utenti.lycos.it/paoloulivi/nuke.html
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-November-2005, 02:45 PM
suntrack2's Avatar
suntrack2 suntrack2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: living in a joint family on earth
Posts: 2,872
Default

oh! thanks kiwi, for the link here. congrats eburacum for the 2000+ postings in the forum.

can we say: the post explosion will open the moon's secrets to know about more things about moon ?
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-November-2005, 09:05 PM
cran's Avatar
cran cran is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Goomalling, Western Australia
Posts: 1,271
Default

In the same way as throwing a probe into a comet? I guess ... but it would help if seismometers were placed in different locations on the moon's surface to monitor the shockwaves ... in which case the best tests would be subsurface ...
__________________
Quote:
"I don't know...I'm making it up as I go along!" ...Dr I. Jones

"...and your wise men don't know how it fee-e-e-eels...
to be thick as a brick..." J. Tull

"Nature abhors perfection... cats abhor a vacuum!"

Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-November-2005, 02:58 PM
suntrack2's Avatar
suntrack2 suntrack2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: living in a joint family on earth
Posts: 2,872
Default

means there is a least possibility to receive the non conventional energy through such sort of ipisode, cran.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-November-2005, 10:07 PM
cran's Avatar
cran cran is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Goomalling, Western Australia
Posts: 1,271
Default

Yes, that's right ... it would still be pretty messy right at the target zone, though.
__________________
Quote:
"I don't know...I'm making it up as I go along!" ...Dr I. Jones

"...and your wise men don't know how it fee-e-e-eels...
to be thick as a brick..." J. Tull

"Nature abhors perfection... cats abhor a vacuum!"

Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 08-November-2005, 02:31 PM
suntrack2's Avatar
suntrack2 suntrack2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: living in a joint family on earth
Posts: 2,872
Default

cran, then it would also be difficult in accumulation of the energy sources through the outer space "for earth" utilisation.


sunil
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-November-2005, 03:28 AM
cran's Avatar
cran cran is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Goomalling, Western Australia
Posts: 1,271
Default

Yes, I think so, Sunil. It certainly would be a challenge to make it viable - it would likely cost more in energy expenditure to obtain the energy source, unless it was already coming here (eg, solar energy).
The easiest body to exploit for resources (other than the Earth) seems to be the Moon - Robert Heinlein wrote a story about mining the moon and it included a system of 'controlled dropping' of the material into the Earth's gravity well; when the lunar colonists decided to rebel, they used the same system, but without the controls to 'throw rocks' at the Earth - the described impact on the surface was similar to a Arizona-style meteor strike, on par with a modern thermonuclear device.
__________________
Quote:
"I don't know...I'm making it up as I go along!" ...Dr I. Jones

"...and your wise men don't know how it fee-e-e-eels...
to be thick as a brick..." J. Tull

"Nature abhors perfection... cats abhor a vacuum!"

Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-November-2005, 04:28 AM
ZaphodBeeblebrox's Avatar
ZaphodBeeblebrox ZaphodBeeblebrox is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Henniker, New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 4,598
Send a message via AIM to ZaphodBeeblebrox Send a message via Yahoo to ZaphodBeeblebrox
Lightbulb

Here's, The REAL Question:

Could It Be Used, Millitarily?

Like, Let's Say, a Huge Enemy Force, Is Coming Up, Over Yon Crater Rim; Would a Large Enough, Nuclear Device, Be Of Any Use?

If So, What, Would It Take, To Achieve, At Least, a Hiroshima Sized, Event?
__________________
If you Ignore YOUR Rights, they Will go away.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 09-November-2005, 05:17 AM
astromark's Avatar
astromark astromark is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Wanganui, New Zealand.
Posts: 2,439
Default

The moon is not a war zone.
With very little atmosphear, there could be no fire storm. No O2. No fire. No wind. Local blast effect only. Then radio active dirt. Why would you want to do this on the moon?
Please don't.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 09-November-2005, 07:52 AM
cran's Avatar
cran cran is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Goomalling, Western Australia
Posts: 1,271
Default

For ZaphodBeeblebrox ...

How big is the enemy force? (ie, would it fit within the blast radius?)
Is it automated? (ie, can you simply target the central control?)
How well shielded? (ie, will the EMP do more than the blast?)

PS, Sorry Astromark, I'm not really ignoring you (you are right, of course) - just playing the game ...
__________________
Quote:
"I don't know...I'm making it up as I go along!" ...Dr I. Jones

"...and your wise men don't know how it fee-e-e-eels...
to be thick as a brick..." J. Tull

"Nature abhors perfection... cats abhor a vacuum!"

Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 09-November-2005, 09:18 AM
astromark's Avatar
astromark astromark is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Wanganui, New Zealand.
Posts: 2,439
Default

I will play also. . . Dont go to war on the moon, There's no oil there.
Its baron, dry, and whats not covered with dust is dust. Let them have it.
Put the wagons in a circle, and shoot them all. Leave it to them, we dont want it.
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-November-2005, 09:48 AM
cran's Avatar
cran cran is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Goomalling, Western Australia
Posts: 1,271
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by astromark
I will play also. . . Dont go to war on the moon, There's no oil there.
Its baron, dry, and whats not covered with dust is dust. Let them have it.
Put the wagons in a circle, and shoot them all. Leave it to them, we dont want it.