Greetings! The computer tells me this is my first post here...Anyhow, I was listening to a well spoken, self described "planet X researcher" on the radio the other night (Marshall somebody? Didn't really get the last name). He combines ancient texts and legends with astrology and, he claims, modern science and astronomy...His story is that various ancient sources may be referring to a brown dwarf star when they talk about an unwelcome cosmic vistitor that appears over several-thousand-year intervals. His theory is that the sun may indeed be part of a binary system, and the reason we don't know about it is that the second star is a dark dwarf that crosses the plane of the ecliptic at a nearly perpendicular angle, making it even harder to spot. When it finally does pass through the solar neighborhood on its presumably elliptical orbit every several thousand years, it causes things like the Biblical flood, etc...Any comments?

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Hi steve_foss, welcome to the BAUT forum.

The Planet X business falls into our Conspiracy Theories section, though some discussion of the Brown Dwarf Binary has happened in other sections.

In short, if you make assumptions that Planet X is a brown dwarf, it cannot have a period so short that it is due to visit soon, and has previously visited in human history.

The hard-core Planet X people claimed to have knowledge of this object from friendly aliens.

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Because of the Kozai Mechanism, if such an object existed, the eccentricity of the orbits of the planets would be greatly affected.

Eccentricity Max = sqr(1-(5/3) cos²i)

Plugging in 90 degrees for inclination gives us a maximum eccentricity of 1.

So each of the planets orbits would be cycling from circular to parabolic. To compute the Kozai Period which is the time for a planet's eccentricity to complete 1 cycle you would use:

P_KOZ=P₁((m₀+m₁)/m₂) (a₂/a₁)³ (1-e₂²)^3/2

where 0 = Sun, 1 = planet, 2=brown dwarf

To give the Planet X theory a fighting chance, lets choose as small of a mass as possible for a brown dwarf, and as large of an orbital period as possible while allowing for at least one other apparation in human history, and an apparation due soon. Also, lets choose a moderate eccentricity for the brown dwarf, perhaps 0.5.

Let's use a period of 10000 years. This gives us a semi-major axis of 464 AU. Anything larger would require the last apparation to have occured earlier than 8000 BC and unlikely that mankind would have a record.

Let's use 13 Jupiter masses as the mass of the brown dwarf. Anything less would be considered a planet.

Plugging these numbers into the formula, using Jupiter as our planet gives us a Kozai Period for Jupiter of just under a half a billion years.

With a semi-major axis of 5 AU and an eccentricity close to 1, Jupiter's orbit would have stretched out beyond Pluto, and interior to Mercury 8-10 times over the life of the solar system. Even giving the brown dwarf an inclination as low as 60 degrees causes Jupiter to travel through the inner solar system. This would seriously disrupt the inner planets. The planets beyond Jupiter would have a shorter Kozai Period, and interior to Jupiter, even Earth would have a Kozai Period of about 5 billion years. That means Earth would have reached max eccentricity 2.5 billion years ago, causing its orbit to cross Venus' orbit. The planetary region of the solar system would be an absolute mess.

It's safe to say that this object does not exist.

"ancient texts and legends with astrology"


read my signature line.

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"I will do my best to understand and explain the universe from big to small without invoking miracles, unrepeatable events, or divine intervention. In place of those things I will use observations, mathematics, and science."


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Some of my Astrophotography


Those that lack education have a hard time understanding its value. - Cross

Ah, but "unrepeatable events" are sure to exist here and there. Probably not that useful scientifically though. Thanks for the replies. I'm not personally digging a cave for my 2012 hideout anyway. My impression of the radio guy was that his astronomy seemed weak. I am confirmed in that impression.

Very good to hear, Steve. It's always good to see another human reject absurd psuedo-science for real science. Welcome aboard!

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"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

Hi steve! Und wilkommen! Read the FAQs and have fun!

It's my understanding that there are more than one of the objects your title refers to.

But discussing Planets X is not allowed on this BB.

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good news. Welcome.

__________________
"I will do my best to understand and explain the universe from big to small without invoking miracles, unrepeatable events, or divine intervention. In place of those things I will use observations, mathematics, and science."


-Cross
My travel blog

Some of my Astrophotography


Those that lack education have a hard time understanding its value. - Cross

Planet X is next coming in 2012 isnt it? Well thats the new date its apparently Nibiru or something? 2012 has a lot happening with the Sun doing supermassive flares whilst causing huge 2 mile high tidal waves then Planet X is popping by to give it a hand with huge disturbing effects and also apparently a comets going to smash into earth as well. Did I miss anything else?? World war three happening too isnt it? Oh and the anti christ fancies popping by. Some people are just sick and it annoys me. Certain people could beleive this and go as far as killing themselves over it rather than risk the horror. These people need to be locked up with such bogus claims.

You what? Discussing Planet(s) X is allowed. But if you believe that they are out there, you gotta put up or shut up. In other words, got evidence?

Fred

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I didn't quite get Masutov's statement either...kinda odd

Pete

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PJE

There's so much I don't know about astrophysics. I wish I had read that book by that wheelchair guy.

I think Maksutov meant it is not allowed in Q&A. Planet X belongs in ATM.

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That raises another question....If Planet X has life, and movie theatres in seedy neighborhoods there,.....do they only show Earth-rated movies??

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A third rate theory forbids
A second rate theory explains after the fact
A first rate theory predicts...A. Lomonosov

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A third rate theory forbids
A second rate theory explains after the fact
A first rate theory predicts...A. Lomonosov