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Old 11-March-2007, 03:28 PM
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Default A rod with two flags

I was thinking about quantum enanglement and then a picture came to mind of a long very stiff rod with a flag at each end. If you turn the flag at one end, then you would have the impression that the flag at the other follows the movement immediatly. Thus transmitting information at an infinite speed.
But this is not possible. What goes wrong?
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Old 11-March-2007, 03:58 PM
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Smile Two paths

There could be two paths. First action then perception.

Say if the action was immediate at the level of entanglement it could only be read at the time it takes to be received at.

This gives rise to if any event is linked in time at entanglement then all are. To create a link could be present past or future depending on the equipment you use in our spatial dimensions to record it.

If you test and then record you violate the result, so it only works if you don't look at it which would indicate that thought is the only property not bound by entanglement although it can influence it.

I could be wrong cheers
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Old 11-March-2007, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas(believer) View Post
What goes wrong?
Nothing goes wrong if you use a rod that cannot exist.

In the actual world though, perfectly rigid rods do not exist, and force applied, like torsion, to one end, moves through a rod at the speed of sound.

Some other discussions:

Mechanical Test of EPR?
Large (500,000,000 ly) particle
A weird question i have
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Old 12-March-2007, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101001 View Post
Nothing goes wrong if you use a rod that cannot exist.

In the actual world though, perfectly rigid rods do not exist, and force applied, like torsion, to one end, moves through a rod at the speed of sound.

Some other discussions:

Mechanical Test of EPR?
Large (500,000,000 ly) particle
A weird question i have
I see my question has been asked before, thanks for the links.
You say that nothing goes wrong for a rod that cannot exist. So if there in theory would be some exotic material with very high stiffness then the speed of light could be overwon?
Is the stiffness of a material somehow limited by the speed of light? Or, tells the "speed of light" to matter how stiff it can be in order that the speed of light cannot be exceeded?

And I like to take the freedom to ask another question (probably asked before me).
Did someone think of the idea that quantum entangled particles might be connected through an extra dimension(s)?
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Old 12-March-2007, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas(believer) View Post
I see my question has been asked before, thanks for the links.
You say that nothing goes wrong for a rod that cannot exist. So if there in theory would be some exotic material with very high stiffness then the speed of light could be overwon?
Is the stiffness of a material somehow limited by the speed of light? Or, tells the "speed of light" to matter how stiff it can be in order that the speed of light cannot be exceeded?

No, you are limited to c in the material. If you violate physical law in your thought experiment's premise, you can come up with pretty much any answer you want. (It will, of course, be invalid)
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Old 12-March-2007, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
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You say that nothing goes wrong for a rod that cannot exist. So if there in theory would be some exotic material with very high stiffness then the speed of light could be overwon?
What part of "cannot exist" didn't you understand?
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Old 12-March-2007, 09:56 PM
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I do understand that and I'm not questioning it. I just wondered why it cannot exist.
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Old 12-March-2007, 10:36 PM
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I do understand that and I'm not questioning it. I just wondered why it cannot exist.
Oh, OK. When you right away went on to "in theory would be some exotic material [...]", instead of, say, asking why a perfectly rigid rod cannot exist, I thought you maybe missed a word.

Many of our most useful, best tested, laws of physics are not compatible with perfectly rigid materials. Maybe they are all flawed. Probably not.
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Old 12-March-2007, 11:38 PM
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In particular, for any type of object, whatever force is hold the individual particles together governs the absolute limit of rigidity. If particle one is bound to particle two by electromagnetism (as is true for the type of objects we're most familiar with), then when you start moving particle one, particle two cannot possibly respond and start moving faster than a speed of light signal (the speed with which changes in the electromagnetic force propagate) from particle one telling it to start moving. So the object will necessarily be compressed slightly as it begins to move. Even if we imagine an object held together by something other than electromagnetism (the strong nuclear force, say), as far as we can tell, all the other forces in the universe propagate at the speed of light as well. If someday we discovered some force that transmits information infinitely fast, and we could construct an object held together by such a force, then we could have an infinitely rigid object. But we have no evidence that such a force exists, and a good deal of theory that seems to work quite well based on the assumption that there is no such force. It's not that we can't imagine that there might be such a force, it's just that all the evidence we have suggests that there just happens to not be such a thing.
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