Dear astronomers wiser than me,
Please help. I am married to a Zetatalk believer. I am sure you are all quite familiar with the nonsense that comes out of Nancy's mouth, but while I can carry an intelligent discussion/debate on a lot of the issues she brings up, I am lost when it comes to astronomical terms.
Currently she has stated that the Earth has halted in its orbit on December 25, 2005, that the aliens are tilting the earth so we still get the seasons, but that the moon, the sun and the constilations are somehow out of whack (I have copy pasted some stuff below and you can also find it on her website in the 'orbits' section). Can someone please explain to me what she is talking about and why it is not planet X.
Incidentally, many wonderful intelligent people, including the fine folks at Bad Astronomy devoted their time and energy back in 2002 and 2003 to the debunking of Nancy's stories, but I cannot find any recent debunking material. Or is there one that I don't know about?
Cheers,
and thank you for taking the time to deal with the crazies

Quote:

It had zoomed in very close to the Sun because of an anti-gravity force, which the Zetas call the Repulsion Force, but it’s kind of like anti-gravity, a crowding of gravity particles. It didn’t smack into the Sun but stayed at a distance like you have a buffer with these gravity particles. And it’s crossing, came slightly to the South and came round in a retrograde orbit which is clockwise, and drift up toward the middle of the Sun. And when we encountered this huge force, we stopped in our orbit on December 2003, December 25, 2003, and have been sitting in this same orbit position, trapped by this massing of particles. And now Planet X is between us and the Sun and we’re locked, really, by this huge particle flow eddy, which wraps around Planet X coming off the Sun and kind of creating a turmoil of particles. So, that’s where we are today. And it’s moving slowly toward us, and it’s going to create all kinds of twisting and turning which has been very intimately described on ZetaTalk.

People have said, ‘if we’re sitting in one place, why do we have the seasons?’. And the Zetas have said they are deliberately tilting the Earth toward the Sun to simulate Summer in the Northern Hemisphere, etc. And in fact the measurements of the constellations exactly fits that description. And I have this in the Orbits section of my web site. So, that’s where we are today. That’s the ZetaTalk accuracy on the matter, the photographic evidence and the reports. And everything the Zetas have said about the weather, in 1995 they described what would happen to the weather exactly. Increasing illness, increasing albinism, the behavior of the US government, increasing volcanism - their accuracy is remarkable.

Noted that last year as well, when the North Pole was tilted toward the Sun to simulate the seasons, because the benign aliens who are concerned with reducing Martial Law panic and slaughter of innocents on the Earth during this time, are trying to simulate the seasons so there’s a gradual awareness of what’s going on and the cover-up fractures and people learn the truth. So, as you tip the North Pole toward the Sun, when it’s in the December position, Orion does remain too high in the dome. We just measured that here, a couple nights ago. Sirius, 17° too high in the dome. Many reports of this. And that cannot, that is not possible if you are tilting normally, like in Winter we’re tilting the North Pole away, and we truck around to Spring, and we’re moving in a counterclockwise manner, and then move over to Summer, it’s like a hat, pushed at an odd angle on your head while you’re walking around a lamp in the middle of the room, which is the Sun. If you are going around that, in a normal orbit, there’s no way for Sirius and Orion to be 17° too high in the dome or more, which people are noting and giving me these measurements, and I have seen myself. There’s no way for that to be occurring. So the only explanation is that we’re in place, the December position, and we’re tilting our North Pole towards the Sun. And that’s why I mention that the Zetas explanation for what is happening fits the observations.

Wonder how they deal with Cassini or the mars rovers.

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If it's just us, it seems like an awful waste of space.
Contact Carl Sagan

Maybe I should post a link?
Here is the zetatalk section and then they have some sort of link outs. The whole thing is a bit baffling.
http://www.zetatalk.com/index/orbits.htm
From what I understand, she is suggesting that the earth has stopped spinning around the Sun? Is that what orbit halting means? And then this has been going on for a year and half now and we just sort of spin in place I guess and the aliens are tilting the earth here and there to give us the seasons.
This makes no sense at all even as I am writing this....
It's usually good for a laugh but I wonder specifically:
-have the constellations been off in any way shape or form?

Why have not professional or amatuer astronomers reported anything about how the stars positions have been changed.

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If it's just us, it seems like an awful waste of space.
Contact Carl Sagan

Simple test.

Go outside. Find polaris. Find north. If polaris is still north, then the earth's axis has not been tilted.

Explain her nonsense? I don't think so. There is nothing wrong with the constellations, and if the Earth was somehow in a fixed location relative the sun then, among other things, we would notice a dramatic change of the motions of the other planets in the sky. If the Earth's angle were dramatically and "abnormally" shifted we would see a dramatic shift in the entire celestial sphere. This would be obvious to any decent stargazers. We don't see it.

As I recall, the end of the world, according to her, was supposed to be in 2003. So, after that the nonsense on this subject largely died down. I actually had never heard of this thing until I came to this site in 2004, and never had an argument with a believer.

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

We're not talking subtle signs only detectable by the initiated, here. If the Earth had been stopped in its orbit for a year and a half, the usual seasonal progression of the constellations would have stopped, because the sun would be "stuck" in one constellation.
Every "goto" telescope on the planet (and Hubble) would have stopped working, because their internal programming would be pointing them in the wrong direction.
If the seasons are being maintained by tilting the Earth, the pole star, as cjl points out, would be moving back and forth through an arc of 47 degrees (across quarter of the sky, in other words), something that even the most casual skywatcher might notice.

Grant Hutchison

Instead of getting mad just hear it, if you can stand it for a while.

Then ask if she believes it.
Then ask if she believes it because she knows it or just heard it from someone else.

Look I have trouble with reality at times and sure what someone else says can sound pretty good because they believe it. People can believe the best or the worst. But real is stuck somewhere here in-between.

If it is real because someone else says its real, then its not real.

If it real because it is real then it is real.

We want to believe the best, prepare for the worst but sadly life just happens and you change the bit you can change, care about others and if it is going to happen there will be time, plenty of time to pick up the pieces.

I wish you all the best, cheers.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

Most bizarre. I've never heard of these loonies (from your OP).
One question is the earth supposed to be rotating (spin creating day and night) or is that also faked by the aliens.

Ah, that's another point.
If the Earth were spinning at its accustomed rate, but not moving around the sun, our days would be four minutes shorter.
But presumably aliens who can stop the Earth in its orbit without us noticing are able to slow its rotation at the same time.

Grant Hutchison

Perhaps I should qualify that. This what I wrote is not advice on lunatics but advise from a lunatic.

To know the future a good test is to see if you can predict your cat, or pick all the winning horses in a race meeting or win lotto. Now I can't do that so that is what keeps me sane.

If someone, anyone had the ability to predict the future there is an easy way to live. So having said that, that is what keeps me sane. Each day just saying this is going to be a real day and Just out of curiosity I will see if tomorrow is a real day too.

I have my sessions of humming and rocking seeing a future bright with angels through to the living feeding from the dying. Just as no one else can see inside my head one has to presume no one can see into another's.

What is important is seeing what is real outside your head. Case in point when shifting boxes yesterday I jammed my finger forcing a fleck of paint under the nail. That was real. Painfully thankfully briefly but real, very real.

When you understand that now, right now your family and friends need you real there isn't time to go driving into trees or being in a flat panic and no I am not depressed, worse curious, curious about the illusion of existence.

There will always be time later to be curious about the illusion of existence or the prospect of Zetas, but there will never be a better time than now to be a part of your family and make their lives a little nicer where you can. And alright so you are prepared good don't obsess on it or it will drag you down.

Given the negative coverage that has been hammered at us for so long now is it any wonder really that sincere and gentle people are quietly going mad.

I figure mine must be in or near the top ten delusions, certainly not in the top two, second being the fact there are 125,000,000 Elvis look alikes world wide and many reported sightings. You should be able to guess number one.

In my case I choose to walk with the angels a bit (some think a lot) but I keep my feet on the ground because this is where my friends and family are.

I have seen the pain I have caused, it isn't done intentionally but sometimes the way through is to keep open that doorway of care and concern. They need to know that they can't help you if they drop out of touch with you. So what is more important to them the Zetas or the fact they want so desperately to help their family and friends.

I really hope it goes well for you.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

Uh, wouldn't mission control of the Phoenix launch have noticed this?

And there have been shuttle missions in that time frame I believe!

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RussT
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Everything is, as it should be, otherwise, it wouldn't be!

Yes, of course, but Nancy would probably just dismiss them as being part of the grand conspiracy. That's why we're focusing more on the grossly obvious things. And that's always been one of the big problems with her claims - the things she claims would be obvious to so many people that you could never keep it secret. So far in this thread, we've just covered some of the results of the Earth being in fixed position relative to the sun, without even going into the ludicrous claim of an undetectable magic anti-gravity planet suddenly and undetectably stopping the Earth.

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

You can tell these people that they are fools. That is a fact.
Nothing in the real world is more clear.
The first of many things wrong with this whole idea is that if Planet Earth were to be stopped then it would very soon begin to be pulled by the ever massive near by star. Life would be very unpleasant for a brief period just before we all were vapoirised... Any educated person with the ability to reason should soon see this is utter nonsense. Stop wasting your time telling people who do not want to be told. This odd religious group have a place. Its not here. Be careful with how you reason with your Nancy,. Offensive critique of the belief structure could be more trouble than you are ready for. I personally could not tolerate this sort of ignorance. I wish you luck and tolerance you are going to need it.

I listened to Nancy a few times on the Art Bell show years ago, and am amazed how quickly she can give complex answers to almost any question or objection. The meaning of her answers is usually obsure and doubtful to a person with even a minor knowlege of physics and astromomy. If the Zetas are really speaking though Nancy, their goal is to give us incorrect information. Neil

With all due respect astromark it may be a fact but ...

You certainly can not tell these people they are fools, that would close the window of opportunity to communicate.

We ordinary humans are not all rocket scientists and what you have is some very frightened people listening to a practised speaker that gives answers.

There are other practised famous speakers (Godwin's Law) who led whole countries astray by their persuasive but wrong arguments.

What you have is a need to communicate and show support for an obviously very caring and worried person, not to bombard them with science but to support them with understanding. Yes this is the forum to get the facts but when a person has reached the point of belief the only way to stay in touch with them is to stay in their lives with them.

They are under a huge emotional burden as it is and in this case the right answers just add more fuel to an out of control fire. Seek counselling find a support that can help professionally. If you close the door to them they may not be able to open it back up to you.

And whatever you do do not read my delusions as that will just totally throw you off ever being able to help someone because as long as you are both still talking they are caring for you and hopefully believe they are being strong for your sake.

This may sound like 'Dear Abbey' but unless you fully want to immerse yourself in professional speaking and knowledge of science it is not an avenue you can win from.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

I'm only a mediocre astronomer. I can pick out maybe a dozen constellations at most. But even I can find Orion in the winter and the Big Dipper in the summer. I suspect there are millions, if not billions of people on Earth that can do the same. Now of that has changed and none of us have noticed anything weird.

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

Sorry, chap, but no amount of evidence will convice your significant other.

The reason is simple - a plethora of evidence exists already, free for the taking from grades K through as long as one wishes to remain in school, not to mention from all mainstream news sources, Discovery, Scientific American, Popular Science, etc.

And, of course, BAUT.

Did it work? Did it take? No?

Then she's not rational.

The only way people like that come around is if most of the major people in their lives come forward, en masse, and say, "look - we love you, and love you enough to let you know you've gone off the deep end," and provide details as to who/what/where/why/how/when.

WARNING: Most people in your wife's psychoemotional situation can't handle such a confrontation without potentially serious consequences (divorce or other (possibly harmful) irrational behavior).

Please seek the advice of a professional counselor in your local area.

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I am Mugs, of the Alien clan of Usa, Nordamerica, a Terran, of Sol.

Perception isn't reality. It's merely an abstraction thereof, and quite often not a very good one at that.

I am human. Fully human.

Brilliant but empty or convoluted?

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I am Mugs, of the Alien clan of Usa, Nordamerica, a Terran, of Sol.

Perception isn't reality. It's merely an abstraction thereof, and quite often not a very good one at that.

I am human. Fully human.