Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > General > Questions and Answers
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

   

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-July-2008, 11:58 AM
suntrack2's Avatar
suntrack2 suntrack2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: living in a joint family on earth
Posts: 2,869
Default question about raining on mars

whether phoenix mission (which is arrive at the surface of mars most recently) has find anything about "raining on mars",? I think abundon mithane raining quite possible on mars !!

is there a cycle every year as far as rainy season on mars followed !

or mars is not having any "raining history".
Attached Thumbnails
question-about-raining-mars-raining-mars.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-July-2008, 03:08 PM
Romanus Romanus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,347
Default

Cold as Mars is, it's still way, *way* too hot for methane rain. Not to mention that there's so little of it in the atmosphere to begin with.
__________________
"Call me old-fashioned, but I think fire is magic. And it scares me a lot."

--The State
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-July-2008, 04:01 PM
Tim Thompson's Avatar
Tim Thompson Tim Thompson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,232
Lightbulb No Rain

Mars has no rainy season. In fact, it has no rain at all. There is a lot of water on Earth, and the range of temperatures on the surface and in the atmosphere is such that water can change back & forth between solid, liquid & vapor. Indeed, this ability of water to experience a phase transition is the primary driver of what we normally call "weather" on Earth.

But on Mars, things are very different. The range of temperatures is far larger than is the case on Earth, but except for some few extremes, the temperature on the surface of Mars is almost always well below the freezing temperature for water, and is literally always below that temperature in the Martian atmosphere. And because the atmosphere of Mars is only about 1/1000 of the density of Earth's atmosphere, it could hold very little water vapor anyway, even if it were warm enough. Since there is no way to get water vapor to hang around in the atmosphere so it can condense into liquid, there is no way to get rain on Mars.

So far as I know there is nothing else that can rain on Mars either.
__________________
Don't try this at home - We're what you call "professionals" - MythBusters.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-July-2008, 06:45 PM
neilzero neilzero is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,043
Default

Earth extreme temperatures have been recorded from -110 f to plus 140 f, a range of 240 degrees f. Likely Mars is never as warm as 40 degrees f, but I don't think Mars gets as cold as -210 degrees f. If it does occasionally get that cold, it could snow carbon dioxide = dry ice. Carbon dioxide does not have a liquid state at low pressure. The carbon dioxide partial pressure at the surface of Mars (lowest elevation) is 3 to 6 milibars depending on the season. Is one milibar of water vapor partial presure possible at 20 degrees f? The atmosphere of Mars averages 90%? carbon dioxide. Neil
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-July-2008, 08:15 PM
Tim Thompson's Avatar
Tim Thompson Tim Thompson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,232
Lightbulb Mars Temperatures

The highest temperature I recall seeing for Mars was about 80 F, but according to Extreme Planet Takes Its Toll (12 June 2007) the temperature extremes measured by the Spirit Rover go from a low of about -130 F to +95 F, which is warmer than I expected. Those temperatures are measured at the rover, on the surface. Since the atmosphere is very thin, the temperature falls off fast with altitude. So it will not be warm enough even in the lower atmosphere for water to do the rain thing.
__________________
Don't try this at home - We're what you call "professionals" - MythBusters.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-July-2008, 12:43 PM
mugaliens's Avatar
mugaliens mugaliens is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 6,978
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romanus View Post
Cold as Mars is, it's still way, *way* too hot for methane rain. Not to mention that there's so little of it in the atmosphere to begin with.
Is there a possibility of CO2 snow during a polar winter? (around -110 deg F)

Wiki says the min temp is -125 deg F, so I would imagine it's possible, though there may be sublimation issues given the extremely low pressure.
__________________
I am Mugs, of the Alien clan of Usa, Nordamerica, a Terran, of Sol.

Perception isn't reality. It's merely an abstraction thereof, and quite often not a very good one at that.

I am human. Fully human.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-July-2008, 02:34 PM
aurora's Avatar
aurora aurora is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,672
Default

I don't know about "snow" but the polar caps get CO2 added to them in the winter.
__________________
"I'm as accurate as any psychic. And I'm a cartoon!" -- Squidward

"Arrrgh, the laws of physics be a harsh mistress!" -- Bender
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-July-2008, 11:01 PM
BioSci's Avatar
BioSci BioSci is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Just N of Bezerkeley
Posts: 313
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Thompson View Post
...And because the atmosphere of Mars is only about 1/1000 of the density of Earth's atmosphere, it could hold very little water vapor anyway, even if it were warm enough. Since there is no way to get water vapor to hang around in the atmosphere so it can condense into liquid, there is no way to get rain on Mars.
Oops, Bad Meteorology alert!
Air does not "hold" water vapor. Gas pressures (including water vapor pressure) are independent of other gases. This is true for water vapor whether on earth or mars.: The low water vapor pressure on mars is not caused or limited by low atmospheric pressure - but by limited water and temperatures.
http://www.ems.psu.edu/~fraser/Bad/BadClouds.html
http://fermi.jhuapl.edu/people/babin/vapor/index.html
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-July-2008, 07:36 AM
djellison djellison is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 881
Default

The pervasive martian dust everywhere is a very strong contraindication to rain. The reason we don't have dust that fine everywhere on Earth and in our atmosphere, is because we have rain. If there were rain of any sort on Mars - it would clear the atmosphere, and the fluid erosion would rapidly wash away the layer of fines that falls from the atmosphere over everything.

Doug
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-July-2008, 11:07 AM
Romanus Romanus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,347
Default

Re Mugaliens:
IIRC, though it can theoretically get cold enough for dry ice on Earth (if not at the surface, then certainly at altitude), the partial pressure of CO2 in our atmosphere is too low for it to occur.
__________________
"Call me old-fashioned, but I think fire is magic. And it scares me a lot."

--The State

Last edited by Romanus; 08-July-2008 at 11:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-July-2008, 11:13 AM
galacsi galacsi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pontoise
Posts: 803
Default Nitpicking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Thompson View Post
Mars has no rainy season. In fact, it has no rain at all. vapor. . . . . . . . . . And because the atmosphere of Mars is only about 1/1000 of the density of Earth's atmosphere . . . .
Mars atmosphere is only I/100 of the density of Earth's atmosphere.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-July-2008, 02:58 PM
trinitree88 trinitree88 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,309
Default

There is the possibility, yet, of an extraordinary rain on Mars, by passage of a supernova shock front. For a transitory period, gas and dust from a supernova shock from a distance as far as 10 light years away...such as the one evidenced in sediments by Fe-60 marine deposits on Earth by Fields et al, presumably from Sne blasts in the Local Bubble from OB stars from the Centaurus-Sco Association.
So it would be rare, but not inconceivable. A meteor shower of fine dust, rich in iron oxides,aluminum oxides, pyroxene, olivine followed by atmospheric occluding, and rain. What would look good for this scenario is isotopic analysis of Martian soils to find Sne isotopes by the Mars Science Laboratory.

see:http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/427797


pete
__________________
A third rate theory forbids
A second rate theory explains after the fact
A first rate theory predicts...A. Lomonosov

Last edited by trinitree88; 08-July-2008 at 03:00 PM. Reason: thank you Astrophysical Journal & Brian Fields ...link
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question regarding Mars Moon Girl Astronomy 8 18-July-2006 09:14 PM
Mars & Murugan nbalu Against the Mainstream 5 21-June-2006 05:48 PM
Possibilities for life on Mars - a surprising new microbe. RGClark Life in Space 1 24-January-2005 09:28 PM
question about relativity and Mars Kebsis Astronomy 77 15-August-2004 12:48 AM
Mars Not The Death Planet... For Americans dshan Space Exploration 6 17-January-2004 09:32 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.0.0
©  2006 Bad Astronomy and Universe Today