Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > General > Questions and Answers
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

   

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-August-2008, 03:22 PM
kpesanka kpesanka is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7
Default Satellites going 'the wrong way'?

My family and I went camping this weekend, and Saturday night presented clear weather and an excellent opportunity for some star gazing (especially since we were far away from the light pollution from our city). About 10 of us went and spent about an hour lying on our backs looking up at the sky.

We spotted a couple of shooting stars, which is always fascinating, but the highlight was spotting three satellites. Two of them followed pretty much the exact same path through the sky about a half hour apart. Then shortly later we saw another one traveling in the same path, but in the exact opposite direction.

My question is this - do we launch satellites in multiple directions, such that the above makes sense? I don't yet have very strong skills with regards to identifying stars and orientation, though I do know the path the satellites took with respect to Ursa Major. This was bugging me all weekend, because I had thought that we launch most of our satellites in the same direction to take advantage of the earth's rotation. Am I wrong here? It wouldn't be the first time for sure.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-August-2008, 03:53 PM
NEOWatcher's Avatar
NEOWatcher NEOWatcher is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: the E(e)rie coast
Posts: 7,682
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpesanka View Post
My question is this - do we launch satellites in multiple directions, such that the above makes sense?
Yes; but not many. Search for "retrograde" in your quest if you are so inclined. (pun intended)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpesanka View Post
I don't yet have very strong skills with regards to identifying stars and orientation, though I do know the path the satellites took with respect to Ursa Major.
Keep trying... I'm not that skilled myself, and a star chart does help a great deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpesanka View Post
...Am I wrong here? It wouldn't be the first time for sure.
Mostly right. If we did it, it would be from Vandenberg, although most of those are polar orbits.
Anyway. It also depends on the direction. If it were N/S, then either direction would be equally plausible. E/W would require retrograde orbits.

While we are on the subject... I did see a N/S rocket body the other day, and it did seem to be going slightly west. Is the rotation of the Earth enough to see visually from a casual ground observation?
__________________
Numbers are not case sensitive. (me)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-August-2008, 04:07 PM
Swift's Avatar
Swift Swift is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The beautiful north coast (Ohio)
Posts: 11,885
Default

A previous BAUT discussion of retrograde satellites
A wikipedia article on them

You can go to heavens-above.com/, input your location, and see what was passing overhead at the time you were looking.
__________________
At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-August-2008, 04:09 PM
Jeff Root Jeff Root is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,086
Default

kpesanka,

There are two broad categories of Earth orbits: Those launched eastward,
mainly to take advantage of the speed of Earth's rotation to slightly reduce
the amount of energy needed to get into orbit (or increase the payload),
and those launched into polar orbits, mainly to be able to look straight down
on any point on the Earth. US orbital launches to the east are from Cape
Canaveral in Florida; US launches into polar orbit are from Vandenberg AFB
near Santa Barbara in California. Launches from Vandenberg are toward the
south or southwest. The exact direction of any launch depends on the
orbit desired, the range of directions allowed at any particular launch site,
and the latitude of the launch site. Because Russian launch sites are at
relatively high latitudes, the International Space Station had to be put into
a relatively high-inclination orbit in order for Russian spacecraft to reach it.
That means the US Space Shuttle cannot carry as much payload to the
ISS as it would be able to do if the ISS were in an orbit with the same
inclination as the latitude of the Cape Canaveral launch site. The Shuttle
has to launch to the northeast instead of straight east.

Satellites in polar orbits go from north to south and from south to north,
and the Earth is always rotating underneath them from west to east...

A very small number of small satellites have been put into east-to-west
orbits by Israel, because that is the only direction they can launch in
without flying over other nations during the boost phase. The Israel
space launch site is at Palmachim AFB on the Mediterranian coast just
south of Tel Aviv.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis
__________________
http://www.FreeMars.org/jeff/

"I find astronomy very interesting, but I wouldn't if I thought we
were just going to sit here and look." -- "Van Rijn"

"The other planets? Well, they just happen to be there, but the
point of rockets is to explore them!" -- Kai Yeves

Last edited by Jeff Root; 05-August-2008 at 12:43 AM. Reason: east-to-west!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-August-2008, 04:21 PM
Jeff Root Jeff Root is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,086
Default

NEOWatcher,

Many polar satellites orbit slightly "backwards", with inclinations of something
like 103 degrees or thereabouts, in order to orbit over the Earth with a nearly
constant angle of sunlight on the ground track. Each succeeding orbit is
farther to the west by the amount needed to keep the satellite orbiting over
the noontime part of the Earth, or whatever time of day is desired.

Edit to add: This is called a Sun-synchronous orbit.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis
__________________
http://www.FreeMars.org/jeff/

"I find astronomy very interesting, but I wouldn't if I thought we
were just going to sit here and look." -- "Van Rijn"

"The other planets? Well, they just happen to be there, but the
point of rockets is to explore them!" -- Kai Yeves

Last edited by Jeff Root; 05-August-2008 at 12:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-August-2008, 04:28 PM
kpesanka kpesanka is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7
Default

Thanks guys!

I checked with heavens-above.com and based on the time we saw the satellites, they were most likely cosmos rockets (the timing is right such that one was going the opposite direction in a polar orbit). Glad I'm not going nuts!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-August-2008, 04:29 PM
NEOWatcher's Avatar
NEOWatcher NEOWatcher is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: the E(e)rie coast
Posts: 7,682
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Root View Post
Many polar satellites orbit slightly "backwards", with inclinations of something like 103 degrees or thereabouts...
I knew there were some like that, but didn't know why.
But; I was more pondering about whether a 90 degree inclination would be visibly skewed.
A quick napkin math tells me a 200mile altitude object visibly in the sky for about 10 minutes, visibly travels about 400 miles, and at my latitude had moved around 125 miles in that time. So; it could look like a retrograde satellite, No?
__________________
Numbers are not case sensitive. (me)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
10 Satellites Launched in Record Setting Mission for India (Video) Fraser Universe Today Story Comments 0 28-April-2008 10:20 PM
How can a satellite's Polar orbit keep following the terminator line through a year? spaceboy0 Astronomy 10 27-December-2007 03:10 AM
Satellites Kami Space Exploration 5 26-March-2006 08:43 PM
Wha???...Satellites flying formation????? caltrop Astronomical Observing, Equipment and Accessories 2 08-August-2003 03:31 PM
Cosmic Dave's 32 questions JayUtah Conspiracy Theories 199 21-January-2003 03:16 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.0.0
©  2006 Bad Astronomy and Universe Today