Hi timb you left out the option that the Young Earth Creationists were right and the gate to this world for the fallen angels expelled from heaven is opened and thus begins Armageddon. As a side note the YEC do have a point in that current science still has not explained the polonium rings of radiation decay in granite which indicate that the earth formed in under ninety minutes as opposed to accretion theory, cheers

Michael.

Sigh.. see here...http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/po-halos/default.htm

An accelerator, big enough to produce such ultra-high energy cosmic rays,
would have do be bigger than our galaxy...

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OTOH the Greisen-Zatsepin-Kuzmin limit article implies the existence of these cosmic rays, at least as standard (low mass) cosmic rays, is controversial.

Oh that is a shame. It would have suited my ATM of CME variable ejection of comet and planetary material model so nicely.

Not at all
Nor is there any shame in learning.

Cheers thank you Neverfly.

Actually, the cheers is due you.

You see, a lot of people would have tried to argue against it or try to downplay or cast doubt on the refutation provided.

You were a critical thinker about it.

I only wish all ATM'ers were as open minded and realistic or true to form as what your resulting post displayed.

Apply some logic here - when have the Swiss ever been a threat to anyone?

They're the most neutral bunch on the planet.

I have a hard time picturing them as humanity's reapers.

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It's all just an act. That's what they want you to believe....

There is now a new court case to seek an injunction against switching this on

See here

Maybe we should suspend the LHC, until this has been argued in court given the media attention about this alleged risk.

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Until what? The media attention dwindles? The alledged risk dwindles? Arguments in court can go on until everyone runs out of imagination.

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Some of these doomsayers are in the same category as the Moon landing hoax believers. Nothing will ever convince them and they will keep arguing the same arguments over and over till the Universe dies from heat death.

Or money

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Not to worrry - a 4.4 billion pound machine is not going to sit around and rust. Even if there * were * a real risk, which there isn't, it would get switched on anyway because the kinds of people introducing these suits to try to keep it from running don't have over 4.4 billion pounds in the bank.

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I'm not for one moment saying it should (I reckon, "go for it") but I wonder if the thing can be used at "half power".

As in, if there was some way some court stopped (temporarily) the thing doing the experiment(s) it was built for, could it be used for experiments in the power range achieved by other already-existing particle accelerators?

(I presume they have not all been switched off and dismantled after this one was built, in other words, they are still useful...)

For example, could it be used to verify previous results in the mean-time?

Cheers,

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What would be the point?

Why spend all this time and money to build a larger accelerator just to verify what others have already done? The scientists have reached the limit and gathered all the information that our current accelerators can do. This is what the LHC is supposed to do, bring us to a higher level of understanding.

Has the world become so afraid of science that they have to cower in ignorance every time a new method of testing the sciences comes into play?

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The tone of the article in The Sun Newspaper, is now favouring those opposed to the LHC.

There is now a public fear of this machine, and perhaps the only thing that will put this to rest may have to be a full court hearing.

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Ignorance at its worst.

Scientific progress goes "PLOP!"

We better have public hearings in regards to Nibiru etc now too...

What about the line in Jurassic park, "They spent so much time asking if they could instead of asking if they should"

Also anyone remember Blake Seven, the episode with the psychotic robot?

Avon to others, "It is your ignorance that has kept us in the dark these years"

ORAC to Avon, "And it is arrogance like yours that threatens what we already have"

Avon to Orac "Shut up ORAC"

ORAC to Avon "YES MASTER"

Final credits

Arrogant, "we know it all" scientists do not inspire confidence

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Won't running it with no ill effect put it to rest?

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Sticks, you almost sound as if you're supportive of this nonsense!

before they tested the nuclear bomb, some people thought that it might set the atmosphere on fire.


If the LCH was a danger, then the moon would have become a black hole long ago, from high speed particle collisions.

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They were a threat to the Hapsburgs and to the Swabian League. But that was a little bit before the world wars.

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I know a Swiss vegan, from a veggie forum; and you wouldn't want to mess with her...

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What arrogant scientists are you referring to in regards to the LHC? Safety studies have been quite clear that we cannot make assumptions based on theory alone. That's why the studies have looked to natural events. As has been pointed out on BAUT and elsewhere time and again, the LHC isn't doing anything unique in nature, and in fact higher energy events occur all the time.

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That misses my point, which was a technical one... can the thing be run in a way that makes it essentially that same as the accelerators that already exist and are used?

Why bother? ...

Verification of results previously attained, using different equipment, would be useful.

...and if those already existing accelerators still have a use, why wouldn't this one?

---

Certainly, I'm on the side of letting them get on with using it for what is was built for.

My question is about whether they'd all have to just sit on their hands while these court cases proceed.

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Ironically enough, the Science Channel has been running it's program about the LHC for months on end, in which they discuss the probability of any doomsday event occurring. *shrug* Guess the public just doesn't trust it.

But one question for any out there who believe this will destroy the world, exactly who would be around to give a damn?

LOL WHAT!!! I didn't know this...

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Quite true. It's always good to be sure things are going to work as planned before jumping in blindly.

But the LHC had over a decade of discussion and research before it was even approved. And this was done with thousands of scientists in dozens of countries around the world long before the first shovel of dirt was excavated.

And what happens if it does go to court? What party decides who is qualified to prove the claims of the perceived dangers? Do we go with a public vote? How many appeals are allowed?

As I said in my post above, this is nothing more than a fear of science.

Unfortunately, this seems to be the new trend. It's not to about questioning science, but to stop it for being a perceived threat, be it ignorance, religious dogma or just because its the cool thing to do.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project

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