Mahesh, this girl was only 16 years old, she wasnt around when that disaster happened, we don't know the real reason why she killed herself, that answer went with her to the grave. Many people have been panicing mainly because of ignorance and media hype.


My daughters friends were crying yesterday thinking that the whole world was going to end and this morning when they came for her they were close to tears, I told them simply they have more chance of winning the lottery than the world ending, they the sat and watched the whole thing on the TV, and left a lot happier.

I am glad it has went well for the tests.

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You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time. But you can not please all of the people all of the time.

"Why change passwords when you've got a baseball bat?"

my emphasis....

Appreciate that, Fazor.

People do a lot of weird things to themselves / go through rituals, just on the occurence of a solar eclipse. I am not surprised, but sorry that that little kid Chhayya suffered so. How ironic, that her name means 'shade'..like under a tree.... 'protection' from the searing sun......

Media hype contributes towards such events too, as Gavin says.

Shame of it all.

ok back to LHC........

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clear skies

If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. CARL SAGAN

Mak: Pass the pepperoni please.
Fazor: "Hail, Bautainia! We pledge our hearts to thee! Science and woo, some babbling too, and astron-oh-meee!"
slang: And it made ash out of yew and tree.

Yes, it's not unusual, among the large range of very acute emotions loved ones have to cope with.

To have to admit to yourself, and by extension to the world, that a close family member was in such a bad way that they felt they couldn't come to you, and worse, the realization that the signs may have been there to be seen, and you'd missed them?

It happened to a close friend last year, whose brother decided to pack it in one night. I found out a day or two later when my friend had to call me to ask if I'd take his brother's place as his groomsman. (I agreed, of course. The wedding itself went well.)

Through the grief, I could hear how shaming he felt it was for him to admit, even to me, how thoroughly he felt they'd failed his brother, how much his brother's suicide blindsided the family.

It'd be one thing if the event was contained entirely within the family. It's a whole other ball of crap when strangers can't help but find out about it.

It's very tempting, in such situations, to try and find something or someone external to blame, when there may not be any sort of blame to be found, obvious or otherwise.

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And you, to whom adversity has dealt the final blow
With smiling [faces] lyin' to ye' everywhere ye' go
Turn to, and put out all your strength of arm and heart and brain
And like the Mary Ellen Carter, rise again.

Hey guys and gals, we are still here, and no black hole ye

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Heh, that's the other funny thing. This was just the test... a "flipping the power on" if you will.

The collisions are still a little ways off...and those are the part that are claimed to be dangerous. Which brings about the real irony of the situation; a bunch of people worried about something that does not pose a risk that will now be "relieved" because the media-given "doomsday time" came and went without incidident...even though the real event hasn't happened yet.

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I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
"In order to increase awareness of the homeless, security have been given binoculars."

thanks chrissy. thanks Moose.

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clear skies

If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. CARL SAGAN

Mak: Pass the pepperoni please.
Fazor: "Hail, Bautainia! We pledge our hearts to thee! Science and woo, some babbling too, and astron-oh-meee!"
slang: And it made ash out of yew and tree.

CERN has done very little to help their own cause in silencing the Doomsayers

"This could be manifest in the sudden disappearance of a particle into a hidden dimension, or the unexpected appearance of a particle in an experiment. Who knows where such a discovery could lead!"
http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/en/...nsions-en.html

"In fact, we theorise that if they do exist, the force of gravity is the only influence that can pass between them. This would prevent any material objects from crossing from one set of dimensions to another."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7598996.stm

Huh? But you just said? what the? And then they wonder why the public is confused? The Doomsayers like Warren are going crazy and the Cynisists(spelling?) like me are having a field day because of their own statements.

But a step closer.



your welcome mahesh

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You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time. But you can not please all of the people all of the time.

"Why change passwords when you've got a baseball bat?"

So you're just trying to get a rise out of people? There's a name for that: trolling.

Well, for that you yourself are to blame. By trying to appear sincere, the conspiracy part seems to be but a side issue. There is not a single smiley in the original post nor your reply. How are we supposed to tell that it's a joke post, and not someone posting with a severe misunderstanding?

And yet you felt the need to ridicule the scientists involved, and suggested they had it all wrong. Does it occur to you that other people may read your post, add it to whatever other woo they've read about the LHC, and soil their pants because their irrational fear gets the better of them? Or worse, as some parents in India found?

And there you go again, with the ridiculing and insulting. Are we supposed to think that you're serious this time, or kidding again? What supporting data is unavailable?

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" -- Charles Darwin
"Your right to hold an opinion is not being contested. Your expectation that it be taken seriously is." -- Jason Thompson
Meet the OOONG TOE.

I'll add to slang's post by also pointing out that it doesn't help that in one breath, you'll conceede a point and say you were just joking, then in the next you'll say things like "It's CERN's fault for fueling the Doomsdayers with confusing statments like these."

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I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
"In order to increase awareness of the homeless, security have been given binoculars."

just in case anyone still has any misconceptions about it


http://www.hasthelhcdestroyedtheearth.com/

Check out the Google main page today (Sept. 10) !

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Relight the Firefly!

"It is quite clear that Occam's razor does not sharpen in your pyramid." (Nicolas)

"Still, a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." (Paul Simon)

Ok, I'll grant you that one, links to this forum can be found by googling. My posts can be taken out of context. But, that still goes back to my point. Shouldn't CERN have some accountability? Here in this forum I am held accountable for everything I write. The conflicting material CERN is producing is on their own website and in direct quotes from their spokesman during a BBC interview. I am taking none of it out of context, no paraphrasing, no spinning. Why am I being held more accountable than their own scientists and public relations people? You guys(gals) are burying me for every little thing I write, but I don't see any of you saying "wow Pip you're right that was a bit silly of them". Shouldn't they update their website if their own theories discount what's published there? Shouldn't they "huddle-up" and say "gee we all need to be on the same page in our statements"?
How many times have I written, "oops my bad, sorry" when I've made a mistake or misspoken here? How many times have the CERN scientists said it?
Bash me all you want, but I'm not a world reknowned physicist or public relations expert. Anyone using me as a "reputable source" is daft. "Gee Pippin on baut said particles might pop out of extradimentiontial space". Then try "CERN scientists said particles might pop out of extradimentional space".

How about: because we cannot tell that you are joking? Or, we cannot tell that you misunderstand something?

Then ASK about what you think is wrong. Do not CLAIM it to be wrong. (IE I still think you might have a misunderstanding about the temperatures involved.) And guess what, BAUT provides for that situation with a 'Questions and Answers' forum, and at least two very powerful search interfaces.

Heh.. we agree! The point is, it quickly transcends to "someone said", and the next step is "someone on a science board said", and then "a scientist said".

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" -- Charles Darwin
"Your right to hold an opinion is not being contested. Your expectation that it be taken seriously is." -- Jason Thompson
Meet the OOONG TOE.

"Heh.. we agree! The point is, it quickly transcends to "someone said", and the next step is "someone on a science board said", and then "a scientist said"."

I understand that point, and I apologize again. But if that person says "what was your source?", and they get a link to my post on this forum, then they are quacks.
But if that persons says "what was your source?" and they get a direct link to the CERN website? They are a person terribly misinformed by CERN.
Should CERN add a smiley? "Just kidding, we don't even have 'a theory' let alone 'a credible theory', that particles will pop out of other dimensions". "We just thought it would be funny!"
Doomsayers get to put those links right on their websites and in their emails. It's a lot worse to me. I totally get your point about "I read this on a science forum." and thats my fault. "I read this on CERN's website, here's the direct link to it." is CERN's fault.

Please don't blame your apparent misunderstandings on CERN. If you think the CERN folks have been inadequate in explaining things, ASK in the proper forum. Should CERN add a smiley, or should they add enough education to guarantee proper understanding? Is the latter even remotely possible?

And btw, "people" hardly ever ask: "what was your source", and if they do, many are content with an answer similar to "it was on the net!!!111", or "I read that somewhere".

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" -- Charles Darwin
"Your right to hold an opinion is not being contested. Your expectation that it be taken seriously is." -- Jason Thompson
Meet the OOONG TOE.

Sing along!
Oh...

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I want to go back to the moon.
I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

In my own defense(if that's possible) I did previously list my non-qualifications here in this forum ie B.S in Math with only 8 credits of physics. So if someone took the time to read this whole thread(unlikely admittedly) they would see that post. CERN has had 5 years to produce their documentation, I've only had 4 days. Shouldn't one of their scientists have noticed that information? Then go to the media relations people and say "hey thats false, or taken out of context."? I work, I have a life(no really I do!), but I've still taken the time to retract and or apologize for my mistakes in my posts.
I'm more than 1/2 convinced that they have put that information out there to purposely boost the media hype and get attention(and dollars) for their experiments. But then they have the gall(Prof Cox) to cry foul when their own misinformation is used against them? I mean seriously you go to their website and they are the ones claiming they will be trying to create and study all these unusual conditions(including blackholes, it's on their own site). Their conflicting statements breed confusion, confusion breeds fear. I've posted several times stating that I trust them not to blow up the world, but I can't fault someone for not trusting them.

It isn't False, Pippen.
You just don't understand what he's talking about in those statements.





Try reading up on Quantum Theory sometime.





You might Like It.





In the meantime, stop questioning everything in a negative light. Can't you go make fun of Greenpeace or something?

In the LHC News topic...

It seems like he'd be very surprised.

MSNBC Cosmic Log: BLACK HOLES FOR BEGINNERS (June 25)

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0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...

Not quite the answer I was looking for though. I'd expect him to be very surprised if it should happen, but, should it happen, how would he feel as he starts to get sucked up? Would his last thought be - "Ah, now I knowwwwwwwwwwwwww...". His final expression may be a very long drawn out smile. Very drawn out indeed.

I'm not trying to pick on him. Although I disagree with him on the planet issue he seems a fine astrophysicist and is doing much to popularize science. One problem with being in the public spotlight though is you sometimes have to take some jabs...

Hello, It's not CERN's job to silence Doomsayers.

It's up to people to do that. Ergo, stop beliving the media hype and start enforcing accoutibility when the media wants to yell "Fire" in the movie threater. (Figutatively)

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There is no problem that cannot be solved by a suitable application of high explosives - US Army Demolitions School

I just saw Hayley's comet, she waved, Said "why you always running in place? Even the man in the moon disappeared, Somewhere in the stratosphere" - Shinedown

http://worldsofothersuns.home.comcast.net/

Enlightened self interest. It may or may not be their job, but it would benefit them in the long run to do it in any case.

One of the problems NASA has often had with funding is their embarrassingly poor public relations policies. You may not like that---I don't either---but it's how world works.

It isn't their job to silience Doomsayers. Doomsayers may be wrong, but they should have a right to say their piece. And, no matter what CERN does, some people are still going to cry "DOOM!"

It is their place to provide information, and to show the safety of their project. They've done that.

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

I can't argue with that--but at the same time, I don't agree with Pippin that CERN is putting out bad information. Take, for instance, the last "contradiction" he pointed out (also, take into account that I am by no means a physicist, particularly to the LHC-studies level). Often you have "contradictions" in quantum theory. But one of the greatest aspects (and mind-boggling frustration) of the field is that these "contradictions" make sense, and work.

You're working in a field where you can say nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, but through entanglement an action on one particle can instantly create a mirrored reaction on another particle on the other side of the universe. That's a contradiction--information cannot past faster than light, so how can the other particle be "told" to react instantly? Yet (theoretically) it happens.

Pippin can argue that they should dumb down these things so as not to "confuse and frighten" the general public... yet anytime something is dumbed down (for instance, "Hotter than 10,000,000 suns" or whatever the figure was) it is instantly criticized for not being accurate. You can't have it both ways--and quite simply, there's a lot of things when dealing with science at this level that cannot be put into laymen's terms.

Asking for such is a double standard.

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I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
"In order to increase awareness of the homeless, security have been given binoculars."

Even then, the Doomssayers are never satisfied.

Okay, this is totally a tangent, but for some reason, Neverfly, I picture you as the guy who blows up a paper bag then sneaks up behind the kid watching the countdown so you can pop it right when they flip the switch.

And, even though this is all in my imagination...I'm jealous that you thought of it instead of me. Ha.

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I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
"In order to increase awareness of the homeless, security have been given binoculars."

As I said, enlightened self interest.

You and I and Fazor may not like it, but good PR is a necessity. The scrapping of the Texas super collider when it as very nearly finished is a good example of why. Or the disastrous lack of follow through after the Apollo program. Do I need to go on?

We-know-better-than-you-so trust-us when spending public money doesn't work. It may be true, but it still doesn't work. We live in the real world.

I saw that the girl killed herself on a friends livejournal this morning... I commented that it is thinning of the flock... if you are off enough to kill yourself becuase your father said the world might end... you probably wouldn't have survived much longer anyway.

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-The Wolf
http://www.ryanmercer.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/ryanmercer317
http://www.pleasegodhelpme.org

Not really.

The Girls father actually tried to allay her fears.
The entire Media and her nation was in a frenzy of ignorance over the LHC.

Remember how many suicides resulted to War of the Worlds being played on the Radio...