No, doesn't make sense. The problem is that gravity is incredibly weak at those scales, and the event horizon is incredibly tiny. A black hole that size, even if it doesn't immediately evaporate, will not aborb the atoms it passes by, it won't even be attracted to them measureably. It will only absorb subatomic particles that it directly impacts, and if you know about the scales of subatomic particles and how much of an atom is empty space, you'll know that the black hole would very, very, very rarely ever impact another particle.


Here's a thought though... What if one of these black-hole forming collissions occured in a place with much higher density, like a neutron star. With the number of high energy cosmic rays whizzing around out there, every neutron star should be hit by high energy cosmic rays fairly frequently.

Those collisions would not only be much more energetic than anything a LHC could produce in the lab, they would be in an environment where a non-evaporating micro black hole could actually gain significant mass relatively quickly. If non-evaporating black holes could be formed by a particle collision, shouldn't neutron stars collapse quickly into black holes?

you lost me phunk

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Don't Hate Me Cause I Am Dum

The point is, if the LHC can produce dangerous black holes, nature can also, and we don't see it happening, even in the most likely place for it to happen.

when does nature do the same thing as the LHC

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Don't Hate Me Cause I Am Dum

High energy cosmic rays are more energetic than what the LHC can produce. When they collide with other particles, they're doing the same thing the LHC does.

Please keep in mind that any black hole that is formed will have the total mass of two subatomic particles. This is hardly enough to "suck in" appreciable amounts of matter from any measurable distance. (And we can measure some very small distances.)

The phrase "spitting in the ocean" is a huge exaggeration by comparison.

Think of it this way...
The mass of such a black hole would be far less than that of a nitrogen atom. Yet, you inhale and exhale large numbers of nitrogen atoms every minute. Has any of them sucked you in yet?

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bmpbmp, to get you an impression of the energies involved with cosmic "radiation".
The LHC is 26km long. In order to give a particle the energy of a cosmic radiation particle we would have to build an accelerator as big as our galaxy, even slightly bigger.
An accelerator that would be powered by the energetic output of several stars...

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Whats about this

I omitted in my previous reply it would continue to punch holes in the earth, but I see I did make that point in my original, and as I said Coriolis would do the rest, even if it only initially collected 1 atom every pass it would grow exponentially... - with effectively nothing to stop it, and no friction it would continue to pass through the earth every 45 minutes.

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Then he'll worry about lead poisoning...

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excuse me doddler

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why should it grow exponentially?
If it would collect one particle per pass it would grow by one particle per pass.
So with every pass it would grow at a smaller rate in respect of its mass.

But, I doubt that it would collect something at all. The odds of a such small thing as two particles compressed to have an event horizon hitting something in the vast nothing of an atom ...

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Big deal! It has almost no gravity. What's it gonna attract?

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His point is, that it might hit something straight on.

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he says
Its possible that black holes exist in the centre of ball lightning.

It is ALSO possible that at the very centre of every planet lies a black-hole. crushed there by the density, and that is where gravity comes from. Although mini-black holes would be tugging on matter, i dont think they could swallow anything which has mass.

Why would a particle accelerator need to be as large as the solar system to create particles moving so fast ?

I dont understand; yes the LHC is only 26km but technically speaking as the particles travel is what they deem to be a straight line. (warped by electro-magnets) then in theory, just keep it going, keep it accelerating....the accelerator could easily be a light year across. (if you kept the particles accelerating for just over a year) - or am I missing somemthing here ?

Another quickie on the LHC..........

I would actually laugh SO much if when smashing quarks together, they ended up with more bits, and so on.

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With ball lightning you should better move on to the ATM section of this board.

A planetary mass crushes a BH? You cannot crush something like a BH. The BH might hold the planet together by its gravitational force, the problem is then that it would be large enough to accret a significant amount of mass. So the planet would vanish inside the BH. BH swallow anything as anything has mass.

You could not keep a particle with the energy of a cosmic radiation particle on track inside the LHC because the electro-magnets are not strong enough to bend its way around the ring.

You cannot smash quarks together. You cannot even accelerate single quarks. You cannot even store single quarks.

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if it is possible for ball lighting and the center of the planet may have mini black holes why are worried about them?

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Exactly. The advantage of the LHC isn't that it can generate collisions with higher energies than what can be found in nature, but that the collisions take place where we can study them carefully.

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your forgeting about the cummulative effect, if it collects 1 atom and it grows by one atom, it would then be the size of 2 atoms and would collect 2 atoms, then 4, then 8, and so on.. untill the size would be truly massive expunging huge ammounts of matter.

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Well to begin with, it wouldn't collect 1 atom. The event horizon of the black holes we're talking about would be billions of times smaller than even a proton. If you added the mass of a subatomic particle to it, it would still be just as small, it would take countless numbers of amazingly rare collisions for it to grow large enough to consume even 1 atom. And by countless, I mean it would take longer than the age of the universe.

No it would not! Initially it would have the mass of two protons. These two protons have nerly no gravitational effect. Adding another proton or even a bigger nuclei does not change that. Just because it has now 3 protons or more does not mean that it would hit multiple nuclei as its size stays the same.

You can compare an atom roughly with our solar system. Mainly empty space with some tiny rocks in it.
Image you would throw an orange size object through our solar system. How likely would it be to hit something?

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Hmm.... you're tempting me to start working out exactly what the chance for interaction would be if this microscopic black hole hits a proton head on (well, with wave functions having coinciding maxima, anyway). I suspect it's very low even in this ideal case.

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You could not keep a particle with the energy of a cosmic radiation particle on track inside the LHC because the electro-magnets are not strong enough to bend its way around the ring.quote]

Is it not possible to just stick stronger electo-magnets on there; you know, give it more coils and more power, like ?

Why would the ring need to be longer i mean ?

you know black-holes which are in the centre of active galaxies? As far as im aware they have huge jets coming from the poles of gama-rays.

I am wondering, does a black hole actually swallow matter or merely unravel it into a wave energy ?

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Which you later addressed rather nicely:

The odds of being hit by a car while crossing the street are far greater, and worth considerably more attention.

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Boy the coils of the LHC generate a field of 9 Tesla!!! As to what I know these are the strongest coils on mother earth.

You have to increase its radius because the bend the particles have to take decreases.

Those BH have a mass of million times the mass of our sun. We are talking about Micro Black Holes with Masses of two protons.... Apples with Oranges

I will keep it simple:
A Black hole accrets matter into a disk around it. On its way spiraling in that matter gets faster and faster and reaches almost the speed of light.
At that speeds it radiates energy away depending on its speed.
When the matter passes the event horizon it simply vanishes.

For the jets look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_jets
These are believed to be responsible for the cosmic radiation.

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I believe that it doesn't vanish, it radiates the matter outwards in the form of er, high energy radiation. It unravels the quanta as it were.

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What effects would 9 Tesla have on Earth's own magnetic field ?

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You can believe whatever you want.
But the fact is that only 10% of the matter is radiated away as em-radiation. The other 90% vanish behind the event horizon and contribute from then on to the mass of the Black Hole.
But I have to add something. The radiation is not just because of the speed of the rotating disk. Bcause of the high speed of the matter spiralling towards the EH the matter gets the high temperature because of friction.

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Its a local field. So it would have the same effect as you Fridge magnets. None. It just disturbes it locally.

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Have you noticed any effect of this?

Los Alamos National Laboratory: Laboratory sets high magnetic field records

Coming soon: 100 tesla.

Or for continuous, not pulsed, fields: National High Magnetic Field Laboratory: Mag Lab World Records

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