If everything is so sure and known about Hadron collider , From the beginning ,why build it and then why use it to make experiments ?

Everybody Ok , there is no more surprise in science ? Only some new decimals to polish ?

One of the reasons it was built is to determine if the Higgs Boson exists, if it does it will help determining if that the current model of elementary particles is correct and that the strong, weak nuclear interactions and electromagnetism are correctly explained as well.

What is the use of this? well it will help solve a predicament that has been without answer for most of the last century.

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There are three main reasons, I'm sure others could be added, but these are the first to come to mind:

1. Finding the Higgs Boson. The Standard Model has predicted this particle. We need to find it. If we don't find it, that is a sign of new physics.
2. Finding the Least Massive Supersymmetric Particle. An intriguing set of extensions to the Standard Model called Supersymmetry predicts "partners" of the known particles related through supersymmetry. There should be one with the least mass, and we hope to find it soon.
3. Something totally new and surprising could be just around the corner and could usher in more new physics.

One last question: Why do surprises have to be unpleasant?

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The bar has been lowered for the promotion of ATM ideas; the bar for the acceptance of ATM ideas must remain high.

Because while the processes that are targeted for study have been hypothesized, no collider to date has been able to achieve the necessary energy levels. Its one thing to know on paper this isn't dangerous, but the LHC will actually bring about these processes in a manner that can be studied.

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Sorry if this has been asked already but is the Large Hadron Collider everyone is speaking about here the same thing as the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider(RHIC) in which gold ions collide at 99.9 c ?

If I understand it correctly the quark soup produced is in some ways akin to a black hole but its gravity feild strength is so low that it will be unable to suck much into it before it 'evaporates'. The greater concern was for the creation of 'strangelets' which have never been detected but show up in the math.

As has been said above though, if such beasties did exist they would have been created by now in cosmic radiation collisions here or on the Moon when such high speed particles can collide with heavy nuclei.

Just read an article on the RHIC in this month's "Discover" magazine. They discuss the way that this is a somewhat test of string theory.

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The RHIC is in Brookhaven, Long Island.
The LHC is build into the existing LEP (Large Electron-Positron Collider) at CERN in Geneva, Switzerland. The LHC will be far more powerful than the RHIC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider

The other part is correct.
Let me just add two things.

1. Strangelets are possible solutions of the underlying math. That does not mean that they are valid solutions. Its like taking the root of 16 meters. You get two solutions -4m and +4m. The only valid solution would be +4m as there are, per definition, no negative lenghts just such that point into the opposite direction.

2. The quark soup would consist of two particles, or what is left of them. so it would have the gravitational force of these two particles...
The micro black hole that they COULD form would evaporate in 10^-22 seconds.

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I'm quite glad my thread has grown into a nice discussion here. My mind is more at rest about the LHC and t he experiments within so thankyou to everybody who answered questions. I am still a little concerned but am a lot better now than I was so thanks!!

Did not see your post, sorry.
The 1 GeV were just an example. The same is valid for a particle that is accelerated to 1TeV. Now you need 1TeV to accelerate it and a lot more energy as with the 1 GeV particle to constantly alter its course around the ring.

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Speaking of which, even if we had the capacity to create a black-hole in a particle accelerator, wouldn't the black hole be moving with greater than escape velocity (even solar escape velocity)?

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Not necessarily. Many accelerators have two beams impinging on a target area from opposite directions. It's possible for the result of such a collision to have zero net velocity.

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"It is quite clear that Occam's razor does not sharpen in your pyramid." (Nicolas)

"Still, a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." (Paul Simon)

Theoretically, the two particles would impact head on.
Their velocities would be equal just in opposite directions, so the resulting BH should not move.
Theoretically....

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For the case that they hit PERFECTLY head on...

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...which is why I said it's POSSIBLE, not definite.

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Relight the Firefly!

"It is quite clear that Occam's razor does not sharpen in your pyramid." (Nicolas)

"Still, a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." (Paul Simon)

The highest energy Ultra-high energy cosmic ray particle at Dugway was ~ 10²⁰ ev. A Tev is ~ 10¹² ev. There is nothing to prevent you from flying in a Jumbojet and just as you bring your spoonful of tomato soup to your lips...two of those particles enter Earth's atmosphere and collide in your spoonful. Their energy is not likely to be fully attenuated by the atmosphere over 8 orders of magnitude. So, the black hole you worry about will form and suck you in lips first, kicking and screaming at 35,000 feet, then the plane, the atmosphere, the Earth, the Moon, the solar system...it's gonna be awesome dude! pete.

P.S. This is why you carry life insurance.

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A second rate theory explains after the fact.
A first rate theory predicts.
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I think technophobia will be our undoing.

i realy think that them doing this ia bad idea not only have a i raed things on the net but they showed this on tv as a possible threat..im only a 14 year old and i knoww i dont know much but if that does go wrong bad things>but hey thats just my opinion

But if the people who know more about it aren't worried, doesn't that indicate something to you?

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"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Even if Black holes do exist , who can say : i know eveything about it ?

AS about not to be worried , most generals have no worry about the results of the next battle. But statistically half of them lose.

That is a great analogy.

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I disagree.

A lot of generals DO worry- but you can't let the troops see that.
Those statistics are based on WHEN?
And lastly - what must be done must be done- there is no sense in WORRYING about it... It still must be done.

The colliders are a different mentality. They are working to expand knowledge not to win a desperate situation.
They are not over extending themselves. They have the luxury of asking tough questions and confronting those questions- that a general does not have. They have more time and can analyze what is what.

I am actually hopefull that these colliders will help create a new fuel for us to understand and use. The Human race is running out of Fossil fuels and we need a new energy source. I hope these experiments will help....

You can enhance your knowledge by simply reading this thread from start to end. It contains enough explanations, calculations and physics to get a better understanding why the LHC is no threat to the existence of our planet.

If then you still have questions and points that need clarification, just ask. We are more than willing to help you.

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The Human race is running out of Fossil fuels and we need a new energy source.

Not to derail the thread, but as a point, while true that there are less FF in ground today than yesterday and so technically we are running out, and have been since we started using them, the world's known reserves are enough to last at least another 50 years, even with inceasing use. This doesn't include future finds and technologies which are increasing those reserves on nearly a daily basis. I can't say exactly how I know this because I'm not sure as to how resistricted the information is, but it comes from near the top of the company I work for and as such it is a person who's job it is to know how many molcules there are down to virtually the last Mol.

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Yes, but 50 years isn't that long when potential nuclear sources could easily go into the tens of thousands of years or longer (both fission and fusion, if we manage to perfect it).

Yes, but 50 years isn't that long when potential nuclear sources could easily go into the tens of thousands of years or longer

Oh very true, but I was really meaning to point out the line of "we're going to run out of oil by 2020" is a load of bollocks. We currently have enough know sources to last till at least 2060 and that's not including any reserves that get discovered between now and then. Sure it won't keep going forever, but by the time that we do pump the last drop so to speak, we'll be well and truely into using alternate energy sources rather then hydrocarbons.

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It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

Quark matter?

http://www.smu.edu/newsinfo/releases/03123.html
I doubt that an accelerator could produce this...

http://olkhov.narod.ru/news1999.htm#1

http://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Tungus...3472346&sr=8-2

Sounds strange...
As far as I know, strange matter, containing strange quarks (Strangelets), is not stable unless in "strange" environment like neutron stars. It would not even have the time to pass through earth.
Seen from mainstream view, strangelets only exist if nuclear matter is metastable against decay into quark matter.
This is generally regarded as a "fairly" radical hypothesis

Anybody more info about stable hyperions?.

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Not at hand...I wonder if what SMU caught was an artifact of the equipment in some way

One more question about the end-of-the-world-Earth-captured-black-hole.

Assumeing one is created at LHC (a stretch, I know), and Hawking radiation does not occur (also unlikely, I know)... I have a question about potential matter absorption.

Some of the calculations done previously mention the average density, and the tiny BH floating through this large, empty sea of space. I know that electrons fly about in the electron clouds, though, very very rapidly (quantumly I know that it is just a statistical distribution when you are not "watching")

My question is, because they are moving about so rapidly, is there more of a chance that the electrons would interact with the mini-BH? Although the density of the atom is so very small, could it be that the electron visits almost every point within the electron cloud in the time-scale of the mini-bh falling through the atom (and thus, is more easily captured)? My analogy would be a maniac driving randomly across a huge parking lot that a turtle is trying to cross. Even though the average turtle "density" is incredibly small, because the car covers so much territory per unit time it makes the poor turtle's likelihood of getting hit become large.

Or (back to electrons and mini-BH), are the volumes still so mind-blowingly small that no interactions would occur?

Some responce on this would be great--I've only got undergraduate quantum, and don't feel quite qualified to respond. I love physics, and am psyched about what the LHC will find, but particle accellerators have become my own personal phobia. The 10^53 years (or was it seconds? Probably doesn't matter either way) calculation for a single particle absorption is comforting. Could someone answer my earlier posed question so I could stop worrying? Thanks.


EDIT: Also, would the black hole floating through an electron qualify as "watching" in the Heisenberg sense? If not, then I suppose the cloud would remain a statistical distribution, we'd be back to average density, and my issue would be solved...

I don't know but I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter. As the BH eats electrons it will gain an electrical charge which will repel other electrons so after eating a relatively small number it won't be able to capture anymore of them and although it will tend to neutralize its charge through Hawking Radiation it will only be able to do so by emitting electrons loosing the mass it gained in the first place.

Also according to what I have heard very low mass BHs (ie hundreds of tons downward) emit Hawking Radiation so strongly that its radiation pressure actually overpowers their gravitational field making them repel matter making one even less of a threat.