Came across this guy in the paper the other day. Refreshing that there is at least one preacher out there who's not terrified by evolution theory. Has anyone else here heard of him or read his book?

http://www.thankgodforevolution.com

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I'm not a scientist, but I play one on the internet.
http://www.rrac.org

Out of curiosity I went to the website and read part of the book online with questions and anwers. Honestly, there is probably a reason that you have only heard of him and no other evangelical evolutionist. The two words are oxy-morons.

They so very completely are...

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Jean
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"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing." - Albert Einstein

"The good life is inspired by love and guided by knowledge " - Bertrand Russell

I've never understood why creationists insist on challenging evolution theory.

There is plenty of potential mystery pre-big bang for them to associate it with God, or a creator. Im agonistic but have no problem imagining some sort of creator/intelligence prior to our universe, but the idea of God intruding for the creation of man and every other biological system on earth is just totally implausible - and the record clearly shows its untrue.

In fact why dont they make a bigger deal out of the possible implication of an oberver created reality. Conciousness being inherent in the universe etc...That's got a lot more legs if one wants to make the case for a God. Its a harder argument to belittle as even the scientific community argue over the necessity of an observer.

You answered your own question.
Evolution demonstrates that there was zero, no intelligent design to the diverse biology on Earth. That is why they so desperately challenge it. Further, many actually spread severe disinformation in the hopes of 'casting doubt' on the evolutionary process and the techniques scientists use, such as carbon dating. Not all are deliberately lying however. Much is based upon heavy misconceptions, that Capt. Swoop rather swiftly lifted from me right here on BAUT.
<tips his hat to Capt. Swoop>

heres a couple links for those who are interested in the misconceptions.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosit...ps/index.shtml

All one needs to do is google "Carbon 14 dating" to get a LOT of hits from religious websites spreading disinformation about the methods used and inaccuracies. I will not bother posting a link as an example of this as it is easy to find.

Rather, try googling "Radiometric Dating" or- I will post the Talk Origins link here about misconceptions about radiometric(including Carbon 14) dating.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dating.html

With a purpose driven agenda, it is difficult to ignore evidence that undermines that agenda.

They challenge it so vigorously because the evidence demands challenging. Only with cherry picking of evidence and spreading misinformation (willingly or unknowingly) have they yet been able to even remotely attempt to cast doubt, however.
many do not intend to 'lie.' They actually believe that their self justification for doing these things is the right thing to do.
It's almost with self satisfaction that one feels he has succeeded in defending his faith if he can 'outwit' his opponent in debate- regardless of the facts.

Well, on a side note, it´s interesting that there are many evolutionists among the Catholics [in Brazil a poll has shown that they are a majority]. Pope John Paul II has stated that there was no conflict between the Church and Evolution: "Truth cannot contradict truth".

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What brings us together is stronger than what pulls us apart

Well asa far as I know the Vatican has always sent their people to become phycists so that they had some prior warning about anything new in science that may rock their boat.

Kind of like damage control strategy :-)

Sure, they are not only crazy but their whole strategy is wrong. Trying to prove the impossible is just plain dumb.

Not when there's money to be made from it...

Doesn't it just warm your heart to know there can be such a thing? It warms mine.

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I want to go back to the moon.
I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

You want to give us a cite for that?

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

There was a small ad in the local paper about him. He will be speaking at a couple of area church's, none close enough that I would bother going to though. I've never seen why there should be a conflict between religion and evolution, so, even if his science may not be very accurate, at least it's good that there may be someone preaching there is no need to get "all upset over nothing."

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I'm not a scientist, but I play one on the internet.
http://www.rrac.org

For a long time, I said the same thing. I never understood why there was conflict.

We evolved- and that was just yet another way that God worked right?

The conflict didn't arise until I actually studied evolution. Got to understanding how it worked.
Once I did- It became appallingly clear that there was no intellect involved. No Creation. No divine intervention. No intelligent design. Nothing.

I assure you, the conflict was great!

To a fundamentalist, the idea is horrifying and appalling. Unacceptable. Blasphemy. You can't have both in the same room.
One says that God is Omnipotent, all knowing and all powerful (nevermind that in the story of Noah, he changed his mind. But if he knows all he would have known he was going to change his mind.....)- The other demonstrates there was no creator at all and if such an entity as God exists- he would be about as substantial as the Great White Spirit. One who partakes in what was already created. A binder or a force that binds- but still a part of a created system.
Of course you can see why a fundamentalist would react severly to the notion. It undermines thousands of years of doctrine.

This is nothing new. I have seen evangelical evolutionists on YouTube. All they do is spout more of the complete misconceptions about evolution and misrepresent how it actually works. They are not tying the two together. They are warping evolution into something that it isn't- like hammering on a square peg to get it into a round hole

What I don't get is that they do not simply say: "Hey look. How great God is. He invented a system so his creation is able to self adapt to a changing environment."
Instead they make a little Bill Gates out of him who is constantly upgrading his creation with Service Packs, security updates and patches to keep everything running. This argumentation drives the whole God=omnipotent claim against the wall.

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"Who does not know anything, must believe everything."
Baroness Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach 1830-1916
our animal welfare board and organisation

Possibly because in such a system, where the god doesn't tweak things, there would no role for priests as intermediaries thus making then unemployed.
Since no one wants to lose a steady income they're fighting for their "right" to earn money with no heavy lifting or thinking.

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‘To those who regard “crime fiction” as some sacred icon which must follow a rigid formula, I will always be the man who writes 18-syllable haiku.’Trying to make sense of computers, The Error Log.

You don't need priest as intermediates.
Everybody has direct access to God. Well, as long as you believe and are able to tell a prayer...

Priests are ceremony masters needed to lead those service events.
And for other additional provides services.

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"Who does not know anything, must believe everything."
Baroness Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach 1830-1916
our animal welfare board and organisation

Ironic. Yet the origins of the priest hood had many facets, one of them being that the common man was forbidden to read the bible.
It was decided that the common person was incapable of interpreting and understanding divine word. Therefor, the duties of the priests was to interpret and then 'correctly' pass on the word.
Severe punishments were dealt for commoners who tried to read or owned a bible and this was also one of the origins of Tarot (which is viewed as witchcraft by the church). Tarot was used by the (Waldens?) to travel town to town preaching with pictographs.

Most faiths place humanity as the pinnacle of creation. God's special stewards of the rest of creation. If they just decided that it was an amazing system that self-adapts to a changing environment, then humanity is no longer special. No longer are we "made in His image". We are just one of many adaptations to a changing environment. The soul that is supposed to be unique to humanity no longer exists.

The only interpretation I've heard is that at one point God decides that humanity is intelligent enough, so He decides to give them souls. But that takes away from God creating us in His image. In that view - he just takes a workable model that self-adapted and endows that model with a soul.

I used to have more faith than I have now. Now I have many questions even though I still feel obligated to attend Mass every Sunday and capitalize words that directly refer to God.

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Spock Jenkins of the Vulcan Jenkins'.

What I don't get is that they do not simply say: "Hey look. How great God is. He invented a system so his creation is able to self adapt to a changing environment."

Actually that IS my viewpoint. And no, I'm not an evangelical.

Non so different from Geocentrism (Earth is the center of all things...) views that were rigorously supported by the church. In time, they finally had no choice but to accept the science.

More and more science proves these 'central' viewpoints wrong and yet, they will persist in it because it is essential to the faith.

I can't help but think of Start Trek, especially Enterprise.
Humanity was often depicted as central- without which the rest of the species out there did nothing but fight eachother. The entire Star Trek Universe is based on Humanity holding the galaxy together in peace like some cosmic hero.

It seems we need serious ego inflation...

I, too, always captialize God

Why do i feel you have it in for me?

Heres your cite and loads more ..please google physics and Vatican. They've been formally and informally briefed on physcis for hundreds of years.

http://www.cathnews.com/news/606/125.php

"In other changes, reported by Zenit, Pope Benedict also appointed two physicists, Theodor Hänsch of Germany and Edward Witten of the US, as ordinary members of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences.

Hänsch is professor of physics at the Ludwig-Maximilians University, Munich, and director of the Max-Planck-Institut für Quantenoptik, Garching.

Witten is professor of physics at the Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton University.

The Pontifical Academy of Sciences, founded in 1603, is currently made up of 80 academicians named for life by the Pope."

There are Catholic phycists believe it or not.

Well, we´re aware of the Vatican´s astronomers and physicists. But you said that the Vatican has always sent their people to become phycists so that they had some prior warning about anything new in science that may rock their boat.

That requires a citation [but I suspect it was only a tongue-in-cheek comment].

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What brings us together is stronger than what pulls us apart

It's not essential to all mono-theistic faith.

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I don't claim to speak for Gillianren, but my impression is that you are implying that the only reason Catholics become physicists is to spy for the Church!

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Any day you wake up on "the right side of the dirt" is a good day.

T. Anderson

That is what I believe.

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I want to go back to the moon.
I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

An Evangelical Evolutionist? Good for him!






Okay, that's one....

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
"The Mayan symbol for "book" looks a lot like a triple hamburger, but I've never seen them claiming it as proof the Mayans had Big Macs." - KaiYeves
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

With one, it begins...

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I want to go back to the moon.
I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

As I already pointed out, there are a great many more than one evangelical evolutionist. In fact, most people that are of faith (modern Christian) and believe in evolution can be considered such.
A quick look on YoutTube will show all kinds of videos of them trying to convince viewers that evolution is Intelligent Design.

Without trying to get into a religious debate, it's false. Understanding evolution means discarding the blatant misconceptions about it. That is the forming of science, not the forming of faith or opinion.
And God knows I know it isn't easy...

But an evangelical evolutionist is one who doesn't understand evolution theory and is still suffering from the misconceptions.

I do not see this as an evangilical promoting evolution. I see it as yet another evangilical promoting misconceptions about science- which is nothing new in the least.

Jetlack, I have often felt like Gillianren is 'out to get me.' I can assure you that it is more imagination on our part than purpose on hers

Asking for a citation isn't being "out to get" someone. It's just a request for information. It's how you learn about a subject, as opposed to just taking someone's word for something, which is how to learn that person's opinion about a subject.

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
"The Mayan symbol for "book" looks a lot like a triple hamburger, but I've never seen them claiming it as proof the Mayans had Big Macs." - KaiYeves
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort