Is homosapien an evolutionary Pandora’s box? Or nature’s finest masterpiece?

Life mutates as it progresses through time via natural selection. Niches are filled, predators become better hunters, and prey becomes better at avoiding the predator.
Throughout the history of the earth, there has been no greater impact on the planet than that of homosapien.
If we go back to the time of the dinosaurs, we know that they lived on the planet for millions of years, yet they themselves did not affect the ecology of the planet in their entire existence as we have in less than two thousand years.
We are responsible for diminishing rain forests and other habitats, of pushing species to extinction in their hundreds, and, possibly, of having an impact on global warming.

The progress of homosapien seems to start with the introduction of grass and the reduction of forests that at one timed covered the planet around twenty million years ago.
The ape-like ancestor of humans then had to cross these large plains of open space to reach other trees in order to feed and expand. IIRC, the general consensus is that walking upright became a better way to cross these plains, if not for speed then for a better view of any predator approaching, and by this our ancestors were allowed to use hands for manipulation rather than for walking on.
This then required a larger brain for increased dexterity and control, which over the following millions of years ultimately led to the humans of today.

Yet now we are responsible for damage to the planet from many quarters. Whether it is technology, agriculture, industry, or humans own weapons of self-destruction, there are no doubts they we have played a huge part in the demise of many species and are pushing earth to breaking point.

The political or moral point of this is not the aim of this thread, but to wonder if evolution got it wrong.
Would it allow the creation of such a species to decimate the planet as we have done? Was it taken out of evolution’s hands the moment we began to walk upright and forced evolution upon ourselves? Are we its greatest creation that has yet to fulfill its true potential? Or is it just pure inevitability that us, or a species like us, would eventually be where we are today?

Inevitability would seem to be the right answer, but there has been no other species on this planet like us. We are unique to this world. And even dinosaurs in one form or another never even approached the complexities of a human being, and yet they had hundreds of millions of years to work at it.
Yes, we could say that the meteorite impact and the huge volcanic activity of the time pushed mammals ahead, but the evolutionary jump from instinct to reasoning must be the crux of the matter.

Of all the species that have come before us, we are the only ones that can now control our existence rather than existence control us. Be it disease, famine, predators, or earth’s own upheavals and climate changes we have overcome what it has thrown at us – but have we pushed beyond that which we were equipped for?
Has evolution met its match in homosapien? Or is it patting itself on the back?

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Biologically speaking, if something bites you it's more likely to be female. Desmond Morris.

Quantum analysis is scientific dithering

Professor Frink: My observations n'hey, n'hey, show the universe could be a torus Weh, uh, or toriod it may like the typewriters and bananas and the monkeys with big teeth the biting the screaming Mm-hai!

Homer: mmmmm... doughnuts!

animals arose and went extinct before we were here, and they will continue to arise and go extinct long after we are gone.
our effect on the earth is still a matter of debate- regardless of what certain wanna be ecological warrior former politicians and celebrities might say about it.
in the overall scheme of things, we are nothing. if we get out of hand, nature's immune system will find a way to eliminate us, and life on earth will go on until the sun starts to boil the atmosphere and oceans away.
so if you want to go on living your life thinking that you are a part of a species that is doing more harm than good, then have at it. but that's a pretty negative way of looking at things, don't you think?

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"blacker than the blackest black... times infinity."- Nathan Explosion
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Evolutions is like a rain cloud, that has no opinion on whether its raindrops go towards growing crops, or whether they go towards killing people in floods.

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...

Homo sapiens. Two words, "s" at the end.

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"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire.
"All your bias are belong to us" Ara Pacis.

Homo Sapiens is a successful species, in as much as the species matters evolution-wise. As far as I know, we are have the highest population for our weight class, which means lots of individuals have been reproducing. And therefore, we are a success. We aren't a plague a 'virus' to quote Agent Smith, we are just good at this whole 'be fruitful and multiply' thing. However, neither are we the Big Dude in the
Skies gift to the universe. We are just. . .us. Manipulative (tool using) Intelligence is but one path to success, and as is obviously not a common one. Many species have come and gone, most likely we will too. And I don't mean in some billion of years from now 'Heat Death' type death, don't flatter yourself, it could be in a few million years. Who knows?
We are like the man whose goal was to be immortal. He was asked how that was going.
His response?

"So far, so good."

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How do you define what's the masterpiece of evolution? Sounds pretty hard to me.
The crocodile, who has lived unchanged and unchallenged since before the dinosaurs?
Or bacteria, who will still be there after a nuclear war, always changng and adapting?
Or human, who have found a way of asking that question?

Or something entirely different...
Think of a race that has evolved beyond the need for physical bodies. Or immortal things of raw energy... or things that could survive a big bang/big crunch. Intelligences vastly beyond our own. Or things so adaptible they wipe out everything else simply because there's no need for any other lifeform any more...

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Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.

"Half of what I say is meaningless, but I say it so that the other half may reach you."

A more objective assertion would be that we are responsible for changing the planet. Whether it is damage is in the "mind" of the beholder. Each species alters the environment usually in a way that over sufficiently long periods of time will tend to work to the demise of the species. We are capable of monitoring the effects we are generating, guessing at corrective action, and monitoring whether that is working---much moreso than other species. We are neither a mistake nor a masterpiece and evolution, exclusive of our skill, cares not a whit. Evolution under our influence will tend to perpetuate us over an ever increasing volume of the universe in a widening variety of conditions. We have found evolution's rudder, but we have a lot to learn about operating it.

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For those inclined to oppose human meddling with the structure of the universe or the composition and configuration of objects and groups of objects within the universe, consider:
Whether there is a limit to the magnitude of a modulation of chaos below which order remains invariant? Or, is order but a fiction invented by perspectives applied over finite, however large, time intervals?

You know, the origin of the word 'Masterpiece', correct me if I am wrong, comes from work that a journeyman in some guild would produce to prove his worthiness of joining the Masters of the guild.
If this is correct, the best is yet to come.

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Actually crocs have evolved quite a lot, they just haven't had a need to modify the basic bodyshape, which is why they look the same.

And the croc heart is more advanced than ours, with its possibility of bypassing the lungs when submerged, so for masterpiece it's not actually a bad example.

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‘To those who regard “crime fiction” as some sacred icon which must follow a rigid formula, I will always be the man who writes 18-syllable haiku.’Trying to make sense of computers, The Error Log.

Cool. You learn something new every day.
I'd love to read more about that. How did they tell which parts of the crocs evolved? Wouldn't all soft part evidence be destroyed in the fossilization process? Got a link?

*fascinated*

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Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.

"Half of what I say is meaningless, but I say it so that the other half may reach you."

As mentioned before, we are not necessary the greatest and best that evolution can come up with. It becomes very subjective when you start talking about a "masterpiece", some might say bacteria and importantly viruses are a "masterpiece". I watched a program on TV about virus spores that are thought to be swept up to "space" and land on other continents and regenerate (come alive). Other virus spores lay dormant for hundred if not thousand of year. To me that is a masterpiece.

The other part of your question dealt with the fact that humans are changing earth in a way that no other organism has done before, this is not true, we owe our existence to algae/cyanobacteria/blue-green algae these guys converted carbon-dioxide to oxygen through photosynthesis (like plants). After hundreds of million of years these guys found themselves in a major crisis......too much oxygen.

This is taken from this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria

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This whole internet thing is probably not a passing fad.-Ronald Brak
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The next link is about the Oxygen crisis (imagine that)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_Catastrophe

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This whole internet thing is probably not a passing fad.-Ronald Brak
While speech might be free, consequences cost.-Doodler

A starting link is the wiki article on crocs

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‘To those who regard “crime fiction” as some sacred icon which must follow a rigid formula, I will always be the man who writes 18-syllable haiku.’Trying to make sense of computers, The Error Log.

However, we haven't been successful for very long, yet. It may be that our ability to manipulate our environment will soon exceed our ability to avoid irrational or unexpected catastrophies of our own making and thus put a quick end to our evolutionary experiment in increased intelligence. It could happen in an evolutionary eyeblink, a few tens or hundreds or thousands of years - in fact, if we last a million years it would be a huge success - if we can survive that long, we can probably survive much longer. The jury is still out on this, and we don't know when they will return to render their verdict.

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It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.
--Arthur C. Clarke

When humanity goes extinct, I would say that is when the test ends. Like Q said, "You just don't get it, do you, Jean-Luc? The trial never ends."

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From what Ive heard latley about the progression of man, it seems we just arent as perfect as we think.

We always get diseases and have body problems.
Our claws are a bit crap.
Our teeth arent even sharp
We dont have any fur.
We cant fly unless we have enough money to buy tickets
Our babies couldnt survive a day without us.
Loads of us live on welfare.
Were always predicting doom and gloom for our species

I could go on!

We don't seem to have much use for such things, anyway...

Well, there you have a point. The lesson I draw from it is that any kind of superiority is just an illusion. As we progress in the ladder of evolution, we run into new problems to solve. Sometimes, our own successes seem to generate new obstacles. It's a bit like getting to a higher level in a video game. You have more points, but the game also becomes harder to play.

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"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire.
"All your bias are belong to us" Ara Pacis.

'We meet at a college noted for knowledge, in a city noted for progress, in a State noted for strength, and we stand in need of all three, for we meet in an hour of change and challenge, in a decade of hope and fear, in an age of both knowledge and ignorance. The greater our knowledge increases, the greater our ignorance unfolds.' J.F. Kennedy

Neither a masterpiece nor Pandora's Box: a challenge?

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"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire.
"All your bias are belong to us" Ara Pacis.

So does every other species.
same for lots of other species, not everything is a Predator.
because we have found a more efficient way of regulating our body temp, that's why we can survive everywhere from the Arctic to Deserts.
Well apart from some Birds, some insects and Bats most animals can't fly. With aircraft we can fly further, faster and higher than any other.
Same for most babies, that's why parents look after them.
Social animal, would you rather they were abandoned to die? How often do you go out and hunt or forage for your own food?

An evolved trait, we can communicate and record. We can express abstract ideas and make predictions.

I could go on![/QUOTE]


I bet.

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Most (all?) species impact the eviornment and adversely affect other species. True, humans do this larger scale than most (all?) other species. I suspect other forces (God?) are supplementing evolution. If not, 90% of present humans seem to be devolving and aiming at a major die off of humans tomorrow or next century. I doubt that the shrinking percentage of right thinking humans can offset the bad effects of the growing majority of wrong thinkers. I'm not sure I know wholesome thinking from destructive thinking. Worse, we are reluctant to tailor our actions to our opinions on what is best to sustain our planet and our civilization. Neil

What makes you suspect this? How does this manifest itself? As evolution isn't directed 'devolving' isn't something that happens, it's all Evolution. How would you define 'devolving'?

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With clothes on! Animals dont seem to need clothes...we love to wax for some reason....

And boy arent we all tired of high petrol prices!

Until theyre in their thirties nowadays with these house prices! Thats a hell of a nest.

I regularly visit my supermarket, hunting a foraging in the city is so misunderstood...you can get called a bum.

Abstract ideas and predictions are what got a lot of cavemen eaten! And a whole bunch of Nazis blowed up.

Please do!

So Pandora box or Masterpeice??

I dont deny the fact that humans can survive anywhere but everywhere you look in the animal kingdom physiologically, someone does it better. Theres two ways of looking at it and animals dont own Zoo's do they?

Mentally, sure we are are amazing, but then again a Dolphin would laugh at us because we dont even have Sonar. We can yell really loud if that counts. Or use our mobile phones. Animals havent pioneered such devices. But could you build a mobile phone? Or tell me how your washing machine works? My point is if someone is evolving for you you havent really evolved. Someone tells you Spagetti grows on trees, would you believe it? They did thirty years ago.

Are we at the top of the evolutionary tree?

Two words people.

Paris Hilton.

Well, as there isn't a single organism at t he top of a 'Tree' then no we aren't.

Evolution is more of a 'Bush'.

Everything is equaly evolved.

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I disagree.. we're not getting stupider or acting terribly as individuals, we're just devolving as a group.

I remember recently I took a psychological exam during a job interview, they asked me about my response to a question:

Do you have faith in the basic goodness of humanity?

I answered no. I have a great deal of confidence in the goodness of any one individual. I think that alone or in very small groups we're brilliant, good-hearted creatures, but the more of us you put together, the worse the results will inevitably be. Mob mentality will destroy us.

Thats a good point and I dont know why that is. I wont be swayed no matter how large the group into doing something I know to be wrong.

But large groups do some crazy stuff. Im not so sure we are developing as a group though. There seemed alot more sensible people in the past. Or maybe the people with the sense are the same, but the populations gotten bigger.

i don't think we are "devolving" as a species in any way- it's just that it's mostly the bad stuff that we do that makes the news and gets instantly talked about out in interwebland.
we are the same animals that clawed our way out from the prairies of Africa millenia ago, and we are altering the world to better suit us today just like we've always done. the only thing that's changed is the technology.
and we have more history to learn from with every passing day.

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"blacker than the blackest black... times infinity."- Nathan Explosion
The.. Best.. Thread..Ever...

Spaceflight will alow us to spread the seed of life to a largely lifeless cosmos.

Stine once looked at our use of resources not as a "waste" but like a baby. A baby expands, uses up resources--excretes a lot of waste. This does not make the baby a bad thing--it merely needs to be born into a larger environment. In our case--it will be space.

A Blue Whale also eats a lot. But it wouldn't be a wonderous blue whale if it didn't.