This is so ingrained it can be scary!

My brother and sister in law were remodeling their house and went to Home Depot to get some things they needed. They walked up to a salesman and my sister in law started asking questions (it was her project, my brother was just muscle). The salesman stepped around her and started talking to my brother! Hoo boy! The fecal matter hit the air circulating device! She grabbed him by the back of the collar and yanked him back (hard enough to pop two buttons off his shirt) and proceeded to explain the facts to him! Then they walked out of the store and went to Lowe's

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Any day you wake up on "the right side of the dirt" is a good day.

T. Anderson

That's one definition of expendable. Your earning capacity versus your life insurance policy. It's sad but it's true.

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Olsen the moderator.

It is an improvement, but I wouldn't buy it still.
Even an old HP has it beat still. So why bother?

It's not a matter of ingrained- it's a matter of choice.
These women CHOOSE to perceive it that way. They prefer it.

If your sister in law was such that she could assault a Home Depot employee so quickly, what was the "muscle" there for?

The Employee was most likely following the normal trend, that is not necessarily sexism.
As I just said, most women prefer to pass those kinds of tasks to the men.
Your sister in law could stand to chill out. She's lucky I wasn't that employee.

In a life and death situation?
You better believe it.
Just because I'm male doesn't mean squat about earning capacity.
My main concern would be his lacking my influence and teachings in life but hey- Like I said-
In a life and death situation?
You better believe it.

I'm always impressed when people assault others in public. I remember when a middle-aged man nearly backed-into a woman's pick-up truck in the parking lot at Home Depot.

She jumped out of her truck and called him a stupid something-or-other at the top of her lungs while shaking him by his collar.

That was a victory for equality, I tells ya.

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Olsen the moderator.

Your being a man (as opposed to some unspecifed male creature) certainly does matter WRT earning capacity.

If you're a typical man in western society, your primary role in raising a family is raising funds.

Try swapping childcare roles with your wife when there is contention, and see how much support you get in family court.

You have to bring in the money. You have no real option.

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Olsen the moderator.

OK, make that added muscle. Betty is 5'10" and 160 lbs.

To me, the "normal trend" is to speak to the person who is speaking to you. To walk past her to talk the person behind her (who hasn't said a word) is beyond rude.
Most, but not all.
No! You're lucky you weren't that employee! At the minimum, you would be unemployed if you so much as touched a customer, no matter what the provocation!

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Any day you wake up on "the right side of the dirt" is a good day.

T. Anderson

Actually, I'm not married.

I'm a single dad with custody.

As far as court goes, I can assure you the courts are coming around to reality where fathers are concerned- Thankfully~!!!

If I was married today- chances are that we both would be working anyway.

Again, not necessarily.
I was not there to observe all this, but her throwing a hands on fit in the store doesn't sound warrranted...

I agree he should have addressed the person who had initiated the session- I was only pointing out that it was not necessarily the case of sexism.

I never said I would strike her.
her having put hands on first is grounds for charges- I am not one to press charges, but in a situation like what you described, it becomes a likely possibility.

One other thing... When I work someplace- I WORK.
This means that I build up quite a bit of influence.
I can provide references to RotoRooter customers who are now banned from receiving service from RotoRooter-Austin on my say so.
Physical violence is a major contributor to such cases. NO employer will tolerate their employees being treated in such a manner and having worked for Home Depot Corporate myself (not in the store) I can assure you that would have been the case with that store.
Your sister in law could very well have found herself removed from the store and at point of authority- advised to never return again.

Your poor daughters. All that great education, and yet you'll burden them into traditional roles and living off of alimony. What is your real objection to those calculators?

As for expendability, as Kaptain K said, men can't exactly contribute a whole lot to continuing the species. Biologically, women are built (if you'll pardon that phrase) to get the kiddies to a reasonably independent and able-to-survive state. Men don't inherently have that capability (biologically, still). Your fiscal interpretation isn't quite what I read K's comment as saying.

Because the HP doesn't have it beat? The TI is faster, more capable, and easier to use, IMHO.

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WANTED:

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Even though I responded in opposition to John Jones post, I will now defend it.

There is nothing wrong with traditional roles and I'm sure his daughters have plenty of say so and choice in the matter.

His objection to the calculators is the same I would make with my son- they are expensive. That much is clear and I think there's no need to read more into that than what exists.

The traditional role is that the male is the bread winner. And this is strongly supported by society as a whole, male and female alike.
Whether or not this changes depends more on the economy than on womens feelings that the traditional role is wrong.
Far more women support the traditional role.

I don't blame them.

I wouldn't mind having someone else go to work while I stay at home all day

In your opinion, but I disagree.
I have found the functionality and use of the HP superior to the T.I.89.

That is, of course, only my opinion. I prefer the design of the HP over the TI.
I also disagree that it's faster or more capable.

I'm wondering if you have actually used an HP calculator to it's full potential.

This isn't a fight Cjl- merely what I think in regards to the topic.

I haven't ever used a HP calculator, but I think the T.I. 89 is fine, it can do anything I need it to - quickly...

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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.
~~~ Richard Feynman ~~~
It is imperative in science to doubt.
~~~ Richard Feynman ~~~
Common sense is not so common
~~~ Voltaire ~~~

Not really. When it comes to a divorce, it is still more or less automatically assumed that the mother gets primary custody, regardless of whether she's a fit parent. It'll also be an automatic 1/2 of assets going to the woman regardless of whether she brought anything into the marriage or worked a single day in her life.

On top of that the man will be paying alimony and child support (two different things people often seem to forget) for the rest of his life.

Essentially its indentured servitude supported by the law. On top of losing half of his money and possessions, and his children, a man then has to pay alimony to a woman for the rest of his life because its assumed that he can make money and she can not.

Child support I have no objection to, but alimony is really just kicking someone while they are down.

I said coming around- not changed.

I really need to go to bed, so I'm just going to reply to this comment for the moment.

Your happy thought there isn't as easy as you think it is, Nev. No matter how many children are in the house, I've seen my dad do a lot of work as a mostly stay-at-home parent for at least 15 years. All the stuff to do around the house keeps him busy.

If you're interpereting it as a fight, I'm sorry - it isn't intended in that way at all. Everything I state is my opinion as far as ease of use is concerned, as well as capability (and yes, I've used the full potential of both HP and TI calculators, and found the TI-82/83/84 to be miserable, the HP to be good, and the TI-89 to be the best). YMMV.


Of course, all HP supporters are going to burn in hell for eternity

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Yeah-
ME =SINGLE PARENT?

I know!

I wasn't.
Just ensuring that you weren't thinking I was
I have no idea why- Maybe we'll make a thread and compare the two someday- But not yet.
I would need to get my hands on them both in order to follow the discussion

Perhaps we should split off the calculator discussion to a separate thread.

As a long time HP48GX user (sorry, Nev, I'm not selling) I discovered an additional advantage to the HP: since it's so "difficult to use" no one wants to borrow it.

"Hey, can I use your calcula- eww, never mind."

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“There’s nothing that spells progress in large, friendly letters like trying to combine two totally incompatible technologies.” – David Szondy, Tales of Future Past.

Funny, I read the description of the incident as her telling the salesman he'd lost their business forever through his inexcusably rude behavior, then leaving.

She would probably have been lucky to have had you as a salesman as I rather doubt you'd act in such a way as to require her reaction.

BTW I wonder is you'd have described her action as a fit if she'd have been a male doing exactly the same

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‘To those who regard “crime fiction” as some sacred icon which must follow a rigid formula, I will always be the man who writes 18-syllable haiku.’Trying to make sense of computers, The Error Log.

By laying hands on his person?

True, and I truly appreciate you noting this

Of course!
She yanked his collar popping two buttons on his shirt?
That's quite a bit of force.
The only difference in my mind, had I been the salesman and that happened with a male, I would have seized his wrist and twisted his arm back behind him and guided him out of the store without bothering to talk to him.

Since he had at that time gone around her to talk to her husband so he had to be moved around to even face her, yes.

Some salesmen really do need to be shaken up so they can learn their behavior is costing the store

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‘To those who regard “crime fiction” as some sacred icon which must follow a rigid formula, I will always be the man who writes 18-syllable haiku.’Trying to make sense of computers, The Error Log.

A couple of words would have been sufficient...

There is no excuse whatsoever for physically laying your hands on an employee.
None.

Especially not to where she's popping buttons off his shirt.
I wonder what the front of his neck looked like?

HenrikOlsen, if you want to swap the gender roles:
How about if it was a female salesperson and a man grabbed her like that?

In real life I'd expect he would be charged with assault and she'd be sent to a psychiatrist to work on her trauma, but then it's extremely unlikely that would happen in real life.

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‘To those who regard “crime fiction” as some sacred icon which must follow a rigid formula, I will always be the man who writes 18-syllable haiku.’Trying to make sense of computers, The Error Log.

Huh?
Ok but if she does it to him, she's shaking up a salesman which is needed...
But if he does it to her she needs psychiatric therapy for the traumatic experience?!

HenrikOlsen, you have succeed in confusing me beyond your wildest dreams...

Wait, it isn't necessarily rude to ignore the person asking questions in favour of the person who isn't? It isn't necessarily sexist to ignore the wife in favour of the husband when the wife is the one asking questions? And I'm sexist?

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

They should both be slapped up--end of story . . .

While, it would be rude for a employee to treat a customer in such a way there is NO excuse for assaulting somebody - If you decided to assault everybody that treated you rudely you would be in jail most of your life....

__________________
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.
~~~ Richard Feynman ~~~
It is imperative in science to doubt.
~~~ Richard Feynman ~~~
Common sense is not so common
~~~ Voltaire ~~~

That's because I didn't add that I thought that charging him would be wrong

Rude salespeople deserve everything that happens to them.

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‘To those who regard “crime fiction” as some sacred icon which must follow a rigid formula, I will always be the man who writes 18-syllable haiku.’Trying to make sense of computers, The Error Log.