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Old 18-November-2008, 01:09 PM
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Default Lots of anti-matter created by Laser

Well, sorta.

Link to LLNL

Quote:
LIVERMORE, Calif. – Take a gold sample the size of the head of a push pin, shoot a laser through it, and suddenly more than 100 billion particles of anti-matter appear.
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Old 18-November-2008, 01:34 PM
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Can we 'store' anti-matter yet? You know, keep it until we need it?
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Old 18-November-2008, 02:25 PM
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No, I´m affraid. AFAIK, storing anti-matter poses a huge challenge. The particles created at the LL lab are destroyed almost immediately by contact with normal matter.
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Old 18-November-2008, 03:13 PM
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The Paul Harvey News (national radio US, perhaps other countries, an unskeptical news source, Jr. reading today) I think had this story described as creating "black holes in the lab". The closing tag was something loosely along the lines of the black holes featuring everything but the gravity, which if present would mean Earth would no longer exist. Yeah, sure.

It's hard to tell if this is the story because they had so much wrong -- regardless of what story they were describing. It's the only current news item I see searching for "black holes" and "laser", two terms I know the story included. But, Paul Harvey News has fooled me before, sometimes reporting "news" that is weeks old, so maybe they were thnking of some other lab's story.

Anyway, when can I go to my local gun store and get a positron beam weapon? Sounds like fun!
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Old 18-November-2008, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Argos View Post
No, I´m affraid. AFAIK, storing anti-matter poses a huge challenge. The particles created at the LL lab are destroyed almost immediately by contact with normal matter.

not really,
Fermilab and CERN have been using accelerators for making, storing and colliding antimatter for over twenty years.

while it is true that not much Antimatter is produced, and the cost of the production is really high, Antimatter is in fact stored in vacuum and magnetic confinement fields this keeps the antimatter from coming in contact with normal matter.

http://www.matter-antimatter.com/antimatter_storage.htm
Quote:
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory stores about 10^14 antiprotons or 6 x 10^-9 grams in magnetic bottle made from refrigerator magnets.
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast29may_1m.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penning_trap
Quote:
A Penning trap is tested at Penn State University. Penning traps use a combination of low temperatures and electromagnetic fields to store antimatter. While the traps can only store incredibly small quantities, the traps will help in developing the technologies needed for advanced propulsion concepts. Credit: Laboratory for Energetic Particle Science at Pennsylvania State University.
http://helios.gsfc.nasa.gov/qa_gp_tp.html#antim
Quote:
Electric and magnetic fields can be used to focus, confine, and store antimatter. If they are cold, antiprotons can be stored in a Penning trap for several days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penning_trap
Quote:
Penning traps use a strong homogeneous axial magnetic field to confine particles radially and a quadrupole electric field to confine the particles axially.
http://www.engr.psu.edu/antimatter/

http://van.physics.uiuc.edu/qa/listing.php?id=1173
Quote:
Yup, we routinely create antimatter and store it in vacuum chambers, held in place with magnets. Of course the magnetic force on a charged particle is proportional to the velocity of the particle, so these antimatter particles must be moving. We store beams of anti-electrons (positrons) and anti-protons all the time.
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Old 18-November-2008, 03:41 PM
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not really,
Fermilab and CERN have been using accelerators for making, storing and colliding antimatter for over twenty years.
Well, I was referring to the amount needed to fuel 01101001´s positron beam weapon.
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Old 18-November-2008, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argos View Post
Well, I was referring to the amount needed to fuel 01101001´s positron beam weapon.

Well that is interesting,
does that violate causality?

it seems to me that your statement happened before 01101001 comment about the positron weapon


Today, 02:25 PM: Post 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argos
No, I´m affraid. AFAIK, storing anti-matter poses a huge challenge. The particles created at the LL lab are destroyed almost immediately by contact with normal matter.
Today, 03:13 PM: Post 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101001
Anyway, when can I go to my local gun store and get a positron beam weapon? Sounds like fun!
LOL
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Old 18-November-2008, 04:20 PM
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One problem with nitpickings is that it takes time to clarify things, and you [me, in this case] end up posing as an idiot.

I was referring to the fact that great amounts of AM can´t be stored with current tech, at reasonable costs. I´m perfectly aware of the subject the page you linked describes. I used 01101001´s post in an [lame] attempt to make some humor.

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Old 18-November-2008, 04:28 PM
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not really,
Fermilab and CERN have been using accelerators for making, storing and colliding antimatter for over twenty years...
Is that the maximum length of time it can be stored then? Several days? No other mention of duration I could find. Because several days doesn't give you enough time to blow things up.
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Old 18-November-2008, 05:36 PM
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Is that the maximum length of time it can be stored then? Several days? No other mention of duration I could find.
This abstract talks of storing antiprotons for 2 months.
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Old 18-November-2008, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101001 View Post
The Paul Harvey News (national radio US, perhaps other countries, an unskeptical news source, Jr. reading today) I think had this story described as creating "black holes in the lab". The closing tag was something loosely along the lines of the black holes featuring everything but the gravity, which if present would mean Earth would no longer exist. Yeah, sure.

It's hard to tell if this is the story because they had so much wrong -- regardless of what story they were describing. It's the only current news item I see searching for "black holes" and "laser", two terms I know the story included. But, Paul Harvey News has fooled me before, sometimes reporting "news" that is weeks old, so maybe they were thnking of some other lab's story.
I didn't hear the story, but from the description, it sounds like this:

http://www.universetoday.com/2008/02...uk-laboratory/

A story from many months ago, and, of course, doesn't involve a real black hole.
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Old 18-November-2008, 07:17 PM
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http://www.universetoday.com/2008/02...uk-laboratory/
A story from many months ago, and, of course, doesn't involve a real black hole.
Bingo. There were two beams involved in today's Paul Harvey News story. That's got to be it. It's a better fit. They got me again with old news. Thanks.

I've either got to listen closer to that particular source -- or not listen at all. Hey, it almost always comes over my headset while I'm running. If I retune to something more sensical, I might trip and fall and nearly die. And sue them, and get fabulously wealthy off the pain and suffering and punitive damages. Yeah. So, I could afford that positron beam gun. Aha, a plan...
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Old 18-November-2008, 10:28 PM
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Quote from original story," On their way [through the gold target], the electrons interact with the gold nuclei, which serve as a catalyst to create positrons."

A "catalyst"?
Shurley shome mishtake?
That's simplifying complex science to a simpleton level.

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Old 19-November-2008, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabianq View Post
not really,
Fermilab and CERN have been using accelerators for making, storing and colliding antimatter for over twenty years.

while it is true that not much Antimatter is produced, and the cost of the production is really high, Antimatter is in fact stored in vacuum and magnetic confinement fields this keeps the antimatter from coming in contact with normal matter.

http://www.matter-antimatter.com/antimatter_storage.htm


http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast29may_1m.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penning_trap


http://helios.gsfc.nasa.gov/qa_gp_tp.html#antim


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penning_trap


http://www.engr.psu.edu/antimatter/

http://van.physics.uiuc.edu/qa/listing.php?id=1173
Good post, Sabiang....most folks ARE unaware that antimatter storage is well developed as you pointed out .....and these references give some good background ...
Positrons are regularly used in medical PET scans (Positron Emission Tomography) and the like.

BTW, also not so well known is the fact that the Pentagon in the 1980's was interested in developing antibeam weapons, especially space based ..and even antimatter bombs which had the perceived advantage of small size and being 'clean' .....you don't hear much about it today because of the 'political correctness' stuff...but it is still going on.


Also, it may interest you that the largest known antimatter 'beam' is actually spueing out from (close to) the galactic center and evidenced by a large cloud of antimatter (gamma spectrum) about 10,000 L.Y. across around the galactic center. Only recently has its apparent source been tied to x-ray binaries that cluster in that vicinity.....
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/...er_binary.html

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Old 19-November-2008, 02:37 AM
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Good post, Sabiang....most folks ARE unaware that antimatter storage is well developed as you pointed out .....and these references give some good background ...
I don't think I'd call it "well developed." You might get the equivalent of a firecracker out of the number of anti-protons you can store for a bit (depending on how good a vacuum you have), but that's about it.

Quote:
BTW, also not so well known is the fact that the Pentagon in the 1980's was interested in developing antibeam weapons, especially space based
Anti-particle beam weapons? References please.

Quote:
..and even antimatter bombs which had the perceived advantage of small size and being 'clean' ....you don't hear much about it today because of the 'political correctness' stuff...but it is still going on.
You don't hear about it because it's highly impractical. For even a small yield, you would need to produce vastly more anti-matter than we can today, you would need a method for long term, safe storage that has never been demonstrated and you would need to be able to make it explode effectively. If you had a frozen ball of anti-hydrogen, and let (say) air reach it, there would be intense radiation pressure which would slow the reaction down. It would be intensely hot but it wouldn't make for a good explosion. So along with everything else, you would need to insure good matter/anti-matter mixing for an explosion.
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Old 19-November-2008, 03:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsquare View Post
Good post, Sabiang....most folks ARE unaware that antimatter storage is well developed as you pointed out .....and these references give some good background ...
Positrons are regularly used in medical PET scans (Positron Emission Tomography) and the like.
Well actually, the positrons in PET scans come from the radioactive isotopes attached to glucose molecules. The glucose is ingested and condenses in the brain, tumors, and a few other areas, and the radioactive isotopes go through beta decay, releasing a positron that annihilates with an electron from the surroundings. The antimatter is produced within the body and no production or storage of it is necessary. Pretty nifty really.
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Old 19-November-2008, 08:25 AM
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Well actually, the positrons in PET scans come from the radioactive isotopes attached to glucose molecules. The glucose is ingested and condenses in the brain, tumors, and a few other areas, and the radioactive isotopes go through beta decay, releasing a positron that annihilates with an electron from the surroundings. The antimatter is produced within the body and no production or storage of it is necessary. Pretty nifty really.
This is true. Perhaps not a good example Gsquare. Perhaps this shows that using precursors might be a better idea. But then we'd need a method that gives a very high rate of production, (precursor ---> positron), on demand.
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