We've seen this before: Efforts to control one aspect of a natural evironment resulted in unforseen, and unwanted consequences.

In this case, "the decision to eradicate the felines from Macquarie island allowed the rabbit population to explode and, in turn, destroy much of its fragile vegetation that birds depend on for cover, researchers said Tuesday." - Source

Similarly consequences have been observed over the years as various species were introduced to control a "nuisance" animal, only to discover than in the new environment, the control species wound up being the nuisance, or worse. At times, it's resulted in the elimination of a native species.

In forest management, we observe that prohibitions against allow natural burning to run it's course, or to replace it with controlled burning as a substitute, can result in entire forests that are ripe for wildfire. Both Yellowstone as well as a large area in the Rockies to the West of Colo Springs/Denver area have been decimated in years past.

Naturally, some argue that measures weren't taken far enough: "What was wrong was that the rabbits were not eradicated at the same time as the cats," University of Auckland Prof. Mick Clout, who also is a member of the Union's invasive species specialist group. "It would have been ideal if the cats and rabbits were eradicated at the same time, or the rabbits first and the cats subsequently."

But it turns out there are mice on the island, as well, which thrive on the vegetation if the rabbits are removed.

Since dogs eat mice, cats, and rabbits, yet aren't exactly the greatest bird catchers due to their lack of claws, and don't eat the grass, perhaps it would have been better to simply introduce a fourth mammal on the island....

Of course, "We believe that the process they are going to follow uses best practice for this type of work," Ingwersen said. "And that all possible ramifications have now been considered."

Yeah. Right...

__________________
After careful consideration of NASA's Constellation Program, I believe Directv3 is the only viable means of achieving the objectives of NASA's Vision for Space Exploration.

"...only nuclear power can now halt global warming." - James Lovelock, independent scientist, author, researcher, environmentalist, and an open member of Environmentalists for Nuclear Energy

Sounds like a good candidate for the LITHA technique. . .

Well, it could have been worse. They might have ended up with cabbits.

__________________
"What you think you thought you saw you did not see." Agent J, MiB - Manhatten Bureau

A wake up call for the geo-engineering wannabe´s.

__________________
The fox knows many things but the hedgehog knows one BIG thing

Now Mugs, to counter some of the cynicism in your posts of the last quarter of so, (Portfolio take a hit? A friend of mine assets have dropped from 7 to 2 million in the last four months. He's still quite stunned.) I saw this social slight of hand unfold.

Golden Gate Park. I'm trying to recall the time frame. Ninties? Feral cats are starting to over run the place with all the social woes of a out of control feral cat population. With most being fed like pigeons

No problem, park officials announce plans to trap all the cats and turn them over to the SPCA.

*Wail!* Not the poor kitties! I tell you true Mugs, every "animal lover" from the lowest crazy cat lady with a dozen cats in her cart to the wealthiest cockapoo pandering pooftah came out to say what a social travesty this was and "can't we share the park?"

So while carrying no real authority, the demonstrations just made any attempt to capture the cats unworkable. Seems the mob won. Weeks pass, then a month, then two.

I start getting curious when some of the papers report that Golden Gate Park officials announce the park has a "rat problem" (?! Wait a sec didn't a couple of months ago...) all the nearby wharves and things don't you know.

Horrible, terrible Norway rats (which ARE horrible and terrible BTW. I've seen them go on the attack after being shot in the head with a .32. You'ld think a round that big, even from a pistol, would have decapitated it) that eat babies, molest bag ladys and cause plague!

(Okay, an exageration, gray rats don't spread plague.)

The solution? Let's introduce barn owls to Golden Gate Park! Everybody knows barn owls eat rats! Even big gnarly grey rats that shrug off light pistol rounds! And a poisonless, "green" solution to boot!

I was actually impressed with the number of barn owls introduced. Memory is uncertain so forgive if inaccurate, but I seem to think that around thirty nest boxs were set up. Of course I saw through all the shenanigans right away. And everybody was quiet about everything after that.

Now I shouldn't add this part if I was only looking to ease Mr Mugs mental state. But for completeness I do have to add that months later after certain equilibriums had been reached, the pro-cats group made one brief, "See, we told you so! There wasn't any problem!" press release. I was a bit bemused.

__________________
Gimme a minute to read through Jay's latest observations...

There was an old woman who swallowed a cow,
I don't know how she swallowed a cow!
She swallowed the cow to catch the goat,
She swallowed the goat to catch the dog,
She swallowed the dog to catch the cat,
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird,
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
That wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her,
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly,
I don't know why she swallowed the fly,
Perhaps she'll die.

__________________
At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

More seriously....

First, I liked BD's story.

Second, introduced species are big problems everywhere in the world. And unfortunately, there are rarely good, easy, cheap, and effective answers that all the stakeholders can agree to (as BD's story points out). And the science of such eco-system management is maybe not quite in its infancy, but certainly, its early childhood.

Personally, I often think the solution to a lot of these problems is to return nature to its starting point, and let nature take its course. For example, in much of Ohio, deer overpopulation is a big problem. My solution, re-introduce wolves and bears. Unfortunately, few citizens would go along with that idea.

__________________
At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

Swift, wouldn't mountain lions serve your cause better? Dispite news stores to the contrary they eat fewer joggers than bears do and not nearly as mainy domestic animal conflicts as wolves. They do have the most successful predation success ratio of any mammalian predator I've ever heard of, some 78%. Compare that to the second place winner, the african lion, at 22%

__________________
Gimme a minute to read through Jay's latest observations...

I can't say I've studied it carefully. Wolves and black bears were indigenous to Ohio before the arrival of Europeans, I didn't know if Mountain Lions were, but now that you mention it, and I look, I guess they were (reference the linked map on this page). I'm ok with reintroducing cougars too, but I suspect the idea will be as popular as wolves.

__________________
At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

Personally, I find there's a simple solution to most introduced animal species problems: Eat them. This works especially well with deer or rabbits.

Good, easy, effective, cheap...and tasty.

- Maha Vailo

__________________
When you get down to it, Science answers how. Religion answers why. - hippietrekx

Mmmm... Cane Toad...

^ Hey, I did imply most of them. Although I'm pretty sure you could eat a toad if you took the skin off and cooked it. Don't want to be the first to try, however.

- Maha Vailo

__________________
When you get down to it, Science answers how. Religion answers why. - hippietrekx

When we bought this farm property it had not been used as a farm for years. We would see deer routinely. The pastures were filled with field mice. There were ground hogs on the property, but we discouraged them. I saw one coyote, bushy tail and long snout in grey and brown. Once we had things up and running with steers and chickens and our cats and dogs, things changed. I see occasionally deer sign but no deer. I see a hawk and an owl all the time now, the chickens know to go inside in their presence. The field mice are rare, now. But, the rabbit population seems to be unchanged. I don't know, but I think the cows ran the deer off. One other thing, I put up bat houses on the barn and they are doing well. The only other irritant is that the sparrows sneak into the chicken coop to steal the chicken feed, oh well.

My point is that our presence seems to have changed the mix of animals, I think for the better. But maybe this was going to happen anyway; for instance the hawk and owl moving into the neighborhood.

__________________
(By the way, I hate it that so many papers in the areas of planetary science and geology are not easily available to the dreaded "non-subscribers". It is like they are screaming at me: "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH". Good, I feel better now.)

"Quaerendo inventis"

Your Congressperson read the "Cap and Trade" bill before they voted on it, didn't they?

I did, too - thanks, BD! And no, my portfolio didn't tank .

The one thing everyone seems to forget, right off the bat, about this entire issue, is that the world is not static.

Never has been! Species, including humans, have migrated in and out of one another's territories since life here on Earth began, and usually in response to some change in the environment (a little cooler, hotter, wetter, drier, more sun, less sun...).

It's normal, folks - even when we're the species that's causing the change.

So why do so many people freak out about it? "Egads! You'll totally destroy the current status quo of biodiversical equilibrium! Quick! Pour money after it! More taxpayer dollars! That's not enough! The barn owls are now starving - we need to import food for the precious animals who are suffering because of our myopic foolhardiness and lack of sound judgement!!! Quick! Raise taxes! All this is costing lots and lots of money!"



So things change. So what - that's normal. Change is normal. Species come and go. Don't believe me? Bring out the T-Rex and I'll prove it to you. What? Don't have one... Dang, there went the neighborhood...

Whereas the science of "leave it be, to it's own devices" has been around for several billion years.

Aha! Wisdom! A spark of reason in the dark, dank forest of cranial conundrums!

My solution is to reintroduce widespread hunting. Tends to solve human food shortages, too.

__________________
After careful consideration of NASA's Constellation Program, I believe Directv3 is the only viable means of achieving the objectives of NASA's Vision for Space Exploration.

"...only nuclear power can now halt global warming." - James Lovelock, independent scientist, author, researcher, environmentalist, and an open member of Environmentalists for Nuclear Energy

I have to add something here...

The extremists will cry, "but we were the ones who created the problem in the first place by introducing cats to the island!"

Well, yes. So what? If introducing non-"native" (but in what century?) species to an environment is so painful, please pack up your belongings and go back to the conjoining of the Tigris and the Euphrates so as to help return the Earth to it's "natural" state.



Yeah...

__________________
After careful consideration of NASA's Constellation Program, I believe Directv3 is the only viable means of achieving the objectives of NASA's Vision for Space Exploration.

"...only nuclear power can now halt global warming." - James Lovelock, independent scientist, author, researcher, environmentalist, and an open member of Environmentalists for Nuclear Energy

I thought that was Olduvai Gorge Mugs?

__________________
Gimme a minute to read through Jay's latest observations...

Well, I guess I'm an extremist....

I hear that reasoning / excuse a lot, whether one is talking about climate change, some sort of pollution, habitat destruction, species extinction, etc.

There are some scientific reasons to be concerned.

For one, most of the changes humans are causing are happening a lot faster than such changes normally happen. I suspect the only "natural" changes that happen faster are things like comets hitting the Earth, and such events are usually major extinction events. Natural systems can not respond fast enough to what we are doing.

Second, lots of these changes have detrimental effects on humans. The introduction of Zebra mussels in the Great Lakes requires multiple millions of dollars a year to keep things like water lines open. The overfishing of certain species mean fishermen lose their livelihood and people lose a food source. Acid rain has damaged lots of buildings and art work in North America and Europe. Now, you might argue that this just becomes a cost/benefit analysis - is it cheaper to fix or prevent the problem. I suspect it is cheaper not to cause the problem in the first place.

But, as I've said before, more significantly, I find it immoral. Such arguments to me are equivalent to saying murder and warfare are ok, because all humans die eventually anyway.

In fact, that is the solution most commonly used for such things as deer overpopulation. I am in favor of it, but it is an imperfect solution (not helpful in urban/suburban areas, tends to cull dominent males and healthy animals and not the weak - makes herds less healthy - whereas predation has opposite effect). It also does not work for exotic species that people have no interest in hunting, such as Zebra mussles and plant species like Garlic Mustard.

__________________
At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

Are we making a distinction between intentional and accidental introductions of non-indigenous organisms? The Zebra Mussel type of potential problem was predicted, which is why ships were supposed to empty their bilge tanks at sea and refill with sea water, but some mute-donkey of a skipper forgot and ZM infested the Great Lakes as a result. On the other hand, the intentional introduction of some organisms resulted in devestating unintended consequences, like Kudzu vines.

__________________
"What you think you thought you saw you did not see." Agent J, MiB - Manhatten Bureau

I think the question is good when it comes to preventing future problems. But once introduced, I'm not sure it matters.

__________________
At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

Nah, those were just temporary digs before they moved back...

Seriously, it just a euphamism, BD.

__________________
After careful consideration of NASA's Constellation Program, I believe Directv3 is the only viable means of achieving the objectives of NASA's Vision for Space Exploration.

"...only nuclear power can now halt global warming." - James Lovelock, independent scientist, author, researcher, environmentalist, and an open member of Environmentalists for Nuclear Energy