Theoretical Astrophysics colleges/universities
Hi all,
I had a student come to my office last week asking if I knew of any good colleges/universities for an astrophysics degree she could transfer to. She will be completing her 2nd year next semester and is trying to decide whether to major in mathematics or theoretical astrophysics.
Anyone know of any good universities where she could do the astrophysics degree? I would hate to lose her to the dark side.
TIA
Why is it that in a traffic jam the other lane always moves faster?
I'd suggest having her look through the ArXiv Astro papers for a week, and see which institutions are doing things that interest her.
Forming opinions as we speak
I never tire of plugging my university, UC Santa Cruz, which has a pretty good undergrad astrophysics program.
http://physics.ucsc.edu/
http://www.math.ucsc.edu
I should think so. Sandy Faber is at UC Santa Cruz, although "she does most of her work with graduate students..." Makes me wonder if one should be looking for a particular institution or a particular advisor.Originally Posted by Amphoteric
Of course, if you want mathematics AND theoretical cosmology, there's always Janna Levin at Barnard.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Don't do "astrophysics" or "astronomy" as your undergraduate degree. Do plain physics and supplement that with a lot of mathematics. Astronomy degrees are usually weaker on their advanced physics and tend to be frowned upon in graduate admissions from what I've heard. You can learn all about astronomy during your early PhD time or during your spare time. Another good idea if you want to go to a good graduate program is to get involved in astro research as an undergrad.
Or another way to put it - if you major in astronomy, take all the physics courses that are offered. My major was officially astronomy - and at the University of Illinois, lots of hours of physics and advanced maths were also required. I took more than was required, and in fact took all of the physics courses available to the physics major. If you do major in physics, then you will still need a strong suite of astronomy and astrophysics courses so that you are prepared for graduate school.
I agree. She should major in either physics or mathematics, at an institution that is doing research in astrophysics that she finds interesting. She should try to do some research as an undergraduate-- good money, great training, as important as any class or any A grade. To do theoretical astronomy, you need to take essentially zero undergraduate astronomy courses. Not that she shouldn't take them if she's interested, they make a great application for the physics, but it just isn't important at that level. Her ultimate PhD should be in math or physics, not astronomy (I don't think there's an "astrophysics" PhD.)
Furthering what Ken said, I've been told that a physics degree grants one much greater flexibility in finding future employement.
Lighten up! This is a stellar board!
Really? I wonder what I am doing then.... : )
Probably more so than any other degree.
Then I stand corrected! (Is there an "astrophysics department" there?)
It's a sub-department of Physics.
Agree. My step-brother has one and he received offers every step of the way.
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
I don't agree with some of this. If the goal is to do theoretical/numerical astrophysics research, then some astronomy/astrophysics courses are still essential, even at the undergraduate level, even if Physics is numero uno. Physics, astronomy/astrophysics/maths and computer programming courses should be taken. The rounder the education at the undegrad level, the better. I do agree that undergraduate research experience is important.
At the graduate level, likely her Ph.D. will be from an astronomy dept. where theoretical astrophysics (in an area of interest) is a strong suit.
I disagree. You can easily do your astronomy/astrophysics PhD without having taken any astro before. If there is a choice between more physics, mathematics or computer science and astronomy, take the former.
Doing research as an undergrad is in any case far more important for admissions, since they won't be asking you to solve astronomy problems, but rather physics or maths.
I'll need some general topics that she's interested in as well as locations she'd consider (including abroad).
At U Florida most of our undergrads are doing either a double major (BS in Ast and in Phy) or dual degree (BS in Ast, BA in Phy). The few who do only the Ast BS still get a minor in Phy since the Ast physics course requirements exceed the Phys minor requirement. These are students who are enthralled by astronomy ... they want the upper division astro courses even though they realize that the phys and math are essential preparation.
I did both the physics and mathematics majors as an undergrad with the concentration of my physics degree on non-astronomy topics (a lot of QM). I also took some of the higher-level astro courses on the side, but found that little of what I learned there was really useful to my PhD. Extra-galactic astronomy just advances to fast that by the time it's in textbooks, it's outdated.
The only textbook I still own is the venerable Binney & Merrifield.
Yes, I agree - venerable. However, having a firm foundation in stellar and galactic astrophysics along with a solid course in cosmology would be highly beneficial before going to grad school to pursue research in theoretical astrophysics. It doesn't matter that some of the frontier details are rapidly evolving - they aren't paramount to an undergraduate education. Notice that my emphasis (in my post above), as yours, is on physics.
The convergence of all these ideas is that she should concentrate on learning the relevant physics and mathematics. That might be best achieved in physics and mathematics courses, but maybe there's a really great undergrad astrophysics class that will have a strong component of mathematical cosmology. In my limited experience, the latter is quite rare (because undergrad astronomy courses usually can't concentrate on that, there's so much jargon and "overhead" and students interested in observational aspects that little time can be concentrated on the toughest parts that she will need to address), but if her institution has such a class from a well-liked teacher, go for it.
How 'bout a course in stellar astrophysics? Such a course is an application of virtually all areas of physics, plus you get to use a lot of calculus and differential equations. Stars are the basic building blocks of the cosmos (well, if you don't mind excluding dark matter and dark energy).
That's an excellent idea.
I agree, but most schools will only have such a course at the graduate level. That might be hard to squeeze in with all the required physics and math classes, and a graduate course in cosmology would seem more relevant if it comes to that. Don't get me wrong, I love stellar astrophysics, I just haven't seen it taught well in many places, judging from web pages. It can easily digress into a sea of equations with little unifying explanation or relevance to someone interested in cosmology.
Not true! There are a lot of UG programs in astronomy which offer a solid course in stellar astrophysics. As for time - as I mentioned above, I doubled up in astronomy (my official major) and physics (skipping the two chem courses required by that major), plus I had 5 courses in advanced maths.
Most webpages out there are for entry level astronomy. There are excellent UG courses in astrophysics/cosmology taught by excellent instructors. I guess it wasn't clear to me that the student in question was interested specifically in theoretical cosmology. Maybe I missed that.
Maybe she isn't, I just assumed. And the websites I mean are stellar astrophysics at an advanced level (what you get at the intro level is very thin indeed). There's nothing terrible about them, they just seem very dry and not very insight-laden, or the insights are incorrect. But I don't want to overgeneralize to what I haven't seen-- there certainly may be many excellent courses of that nature that would be quite well taught and quite interesting to an undergrad. It depends on the institution and what is offered, that's definitely the place to start. If the course is good, I agree that stars have a lot of really interesting physics in them, and are a great laboratory for learning physics that doesn't require advanced mathematics. I got a sense this student grooved on the advanced mathematics and wanted physical insights to guide her mathematical studies, so that's where my comments are pointed.
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