The Dish

Sticks · #1 (**permalink**) 22-November-2004, 10:46 PM

As mentioned of the Apollo-Hoax forum, I have now seen "The Dish" on DVD, about the Parkes radio telescope's role in Apollo 11.

In it, it features a powercut wiping out the tracking computer. Did that happen, or was that fictional.

It seemed a very emotional film, as if you were watching the first steps on the movie set, sorry the moon :wink: as they happened.

Did Phil do a critique of this?

Does Jay have knowledge of the ground based tracking as well as the Apollo craft?

Great website of the actual Parkes station \

/
Here

AGN Fuel · #2 (**permalink**) 22-November-2004, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticks

As mentioned of the Apollo-Hoax forum, I have now seen "The Dish" on DVD, about the Parkes radio telescope's role in Apollo 11.

In it, it features a powercut wiping out the tracking computer. Did that happen, or was that fictional.

It seemed a very emotional film, as if you were watching the first steps on the movie set, sorry the moon :wink: as they happened.

Did Phil do a critique of this?

Does Jay have knowledge of the ground based tracking as well as the Apollo craft?

Great website of the actual Parkes station \

/
Here

That scene was completely fictional. As were the first images of Armstrong's EVA coming through Parkes (they came in through Honeysuckle Creek. Parkes images were first used almost 10 minutes into the EVA, but were of such superior quality that they used PKS for the rest of the EVA).

The exceptionally high wind gusts were real however. Also based heavily on reality was the scene in the movie that touched on the contract between the CSIRO and NASA - after contract negotiations, John Bolton (on whom the Sam Neill character was loosely based) would agree only to a contract that simply said that 'The RadioPhysics division would agree to support the Apollo 11 mission'.

I love the movie to death - not only because it portrays a magnificent, beautiful radio telescope ( 8) ) but also because I spent a formative period of my youth in a small NSW country town not unlike Parkes and I get very nostalgic!

Here is a wonderful description of Parkes role in Apollo 11:

http://www.parkes.atnf.csiro.au/apollo11/

(edited to include url)

gethen · #3 (**permalink**) 23-November-2004, 12:55 AM

I love that movie as well. I know it's not historically accurate in many respects, but it still make heroes of people trying to do their jobs in spite of adverse situations, and it certainly makes heroes of the people who gave their best to let the rest of us share in that historic moment.

AGN Fuel · #4 (**permalink**) 23-November-2004, 02:39 AM

And the band's rendition of the American national anthem at the reception for the Ambassador, is worth the cost of the DVD alone!

endeavour · #5 (**permalink**) 23-November-2004, 03:54 AM

The "power outage" incident in The Dish is actually very loosely based on an event that occurred at the Tidbinbilla tracking station, near Canberra.

The original mission plan for Apollo 11 placed Parkes in the role of backup during the moonwalk for NASA's two tracking stations, the 64-metre dish at Goldstone in California (which was to receive the television pictures), and the 26-metre DSN antenna at Tidbinbilla near Canberra, Australia (which was to receive the telemetry data from the Apollo 11 crew on the lunar surface). The flight plan had the astronauts performing the moonwalk shortly after landing, and as the Moon was not due to rise at Parkes until 1:02 pm (AEST), the EVA would have been completed by that time. The Honeysuckle Creek MSFN station, also near Canberra, was to track the Command Module, Columbia, in Lunar orbit at the same time.

All this was changed some two months before the mission, when it was decided to alter the Apollo 11 mission plan and allow a rest period before commencing the Lunar EVA. The new plan had the EVA starting about ten hours after landing, at 4:21 pm (AEST), which was some twenty minutes after the Moon had set for the Goldstone. As the Moon would be high overhead at Parkes, the telescope’s role was consequently upgraded from backup to prime receiving station for the television broadcast of the EVA.

One day after the launch of Apollo 11, a fire in the power supply at Tidbinbilla severely damaged the transmitter. Despite having repaired the damage in 12 hours, NASA lost confidence in the station and switched its role with Honeysuckle Creek, which would provide the first images from Apollo 11 until Parkes took over, and then concentrate throughout the Lunar EVA on the vital telemetry data from the crews’ backpack EVCS.

As Armstrong prepared to step onto the Moon, three tracking stations were receiving the signals simultaneously: Parkes (where the Moon had barely risen), Honeysuckle Creek and Goldstone. Using its less sensitive 'off-axis' detector, Parkes was able to receive signals just as the Lunar Module TV camera was switched on, but they were of low quality. Goldstone was also havig problmes with its signal, so it was decided to go with the signal from Honeysuckle Creek as the EVA began. Eight minutes later the Moon had risen into the field of view of the Parkes telescope's main detector, and the picture quality improved markedly, so it was decided to switch over to the signals from Parkes, which continued to provide the television coverage until the end of the EVA.

And for the record, I love The Dish, despite its historical innacuracies. After all, it is a comedy, not a docu-drama! And you're right AGN-the scene where the high school band plays the Amercian national anthem is very funny and certainly worth the price of the DVD to see it

jrkeller · #6 (**permalink**) 23-November-2004, 04:42 AM

The Dish is not very accurate. Mike Dinn, who was part of the Australian team, has a site listing the errors and is found here. Mike sometimes posts here.

kucharek · #7 (**permalink**) 23-November-2004, 06:18 AM

Further reading on Aussie tracking issues:

http://www.honeysucklecreek.net/

Sticks · #8 (**permalink**) 23-November-2004, 06:46 AM

So we don't need Jay on this one

Nice to know that the power blackout at Parkes never happened, it seemed to play to certain stereotypes.

BTW would a school band really get confused about a national anthem.

Out of curiosity Has Jodrel Bank here in England ever been used for the Apollo programme or any other part of the space programme?

The deep space probes perhaps?

kucharek · #9 (**permalink**) 23-November-2004, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticks

Out of curiosity Has Jodrel Bank here in England ever been used for the Apollo programme or any other part of the space programme?

The deep space probes perhaps?

In short, yes. JB became especially famous for enabling the early publishing of the first pictures from the lunar surface by Luna 9.

More than you wanted to know...:
Jodrell Bank's role in early space tracking activities

Harald

Trust No 1 · #10 (**permalink**) 27-November-2004, 08:58 PM

Great to see this movie make an appearance here.
I really enjoyed this movie, even though it was not an accurate portrayal of events.

Sticks · #11 (**permalink**) 27-November-2004, 10:18 PM

Have temporarily moved this to the AH forum for my next post

See you over there \

/

Sticks · #12 (**permalink**) 03-December-2004, 09:35 PM

Returning from Apollo Hoax

On there I posed this question, inspired by the film

Quote:

Although I live in a "Noisy" area, so can not do this myself, I did wonder if it was possible to use an old sattelite TV dish to make a miniture radio telescope. If one did, would it be able to detact anything useful?

Are there many amateur radio astronomers ? :-?

If so, what kind of kit do you use and do you need to be in the middle of nowhere?

Fortis · #13 (**permalink**) 03-December-2004, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticks

Returning from Apollo Hoax

On there I posed this question, inspired by the film

Quote:

Although I live in a "Noisy" area, so can not do this myself, I did wonder if it was possible to use an old sattelite TV dish to make a miniture radio telescope. If one did, would it be able to detact anything useful?

Are there many amateur radio astronomers ? :-?

If so, what kind of kit do you use and do you need to be in the middle of nowhere?

You may be in with a chance of detecting the Sun. There used to be a nice exhibit at Jodrell Bank that used a small dish (though not as small as a modern satellite TV dish). There was a little signal strength meter attached to it, and the idea was that the "signal" (or at least radio noise) was maximised when you had it pointing at the Sun. Fun to do on a cloudy day, when you can't see the Sun directly.

teemo · #14 (**permalink**) 04-December-2004, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticks

Returning from Apollo Hoax

On there I posed this question, inspired by the film

Quote:

Although I live in a "Noisy" area, so can not do this myself, I did wonder if it was possible to use an old sattelite TV dish to make a miniture radio telescope. If one did, would it be able to detact anything useful?

Are there many amateur radio astronomers ? :-?

If so, what kind of kit do you use and do you need to be in the middle of nowhere?

http://www.qsl.net/SARA/

You might want to start at SARA.

Tom
KC5DAR

Sticks · #15 (**permalink**) 04-December-2004, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fortis

You may be in with a chance of detecting the Sun. There used to be a nice exhibit at Jodrell Bank that used a small dish (though not as small as a modern satellite TV dish). There was a little signal strength meter attached to it, and the idea was that the "signal" (or at least radio noise) was maximised when you had it pointing at the Sun. Fun to do on a cloudy day, when you can't see the Sun directly.

I remember that one from my all to brief visit to Jodrel Bank. What happened to it ? :-?

Fortis · #16 (**permalink**) 04-December-2004, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fortis

You may be in with a chance of detecting the Sun. There used to be a nice exhibit at Jodrell Bank that used a small dish (though not as small as a modern satellite TV dish). There was a little signal strength meter attached to it, and the idea was that the "signal" (or at least radio noise) was maximised when you had it pointing at the Sun. Fun to do on a cloudy day, when you can't see the Sun directly.

I remember that one from my all to brief visit to Jodrel Bank. What happened to it ? :-?

It may still be there. (It's been a few years since I was last there, so I can't be sure that it still is, though.) Did you do the planetary walk through the arboretum?

Sticks · #17 (**permalink**) 06-December-2004, 06:59 PM

I visited the planetarium

But this was when I was still at school

Sticks · #18 (**permalink**) 06-December-2004, 09:33 PM

Just to alert British subscribers

The Dish will be on Channel 4 this Saturday (11 December 2004) at 16:10 - 18:00

JonClarke · #19 (**permalink**) 12-December-2004, 11:00 AM

Just finished rewatching (for the upteenth time) this wonderful movie. Yes, it has "inaccuracies" - all for justifiable IMHO dramatic effect and it never pretends to be a docodrama, but being loosely based on actual events. It is a wonderful tribute to the people all over the world who made this film possible. Superb acting direction, score, and cinematography. Plus a warm and incredibly funny movie.

Jon

Kiwi · #20 (**permalink**) 28-January-2005, 12:11 PM

I recently bought my first DVD player, and "The Dish" was high on my wanted list. "The Right Stuff" was the very first movie I bought.

Not only is the movie great (it's a fictional comedy, only loosely based on fact), with the Aussies being ably supported by two Kiwi actors, Sam Neill and Roy Billing :-), but the extras are wonderful -- the Apollo 11 Diary with it's many sound clips, and especially the 70-minute programme, "The Footage We Loved But Couldn't Use." It's an excellent addition to their library for those who can't get the SpacecraftFilms DVDs.

There is a little bit of "Bad Apollo," probably due to someone not understanding the subject when assembling the DVD.

1. On the cover it says "July 20 1969 - the day man first set foot on the moon." Not true. It was Monday 21 July for the first 14-or-so time zones in the world. I was so excited after listening to the landing on the radio at 8:17:40 am that I took the afternoon off work.

2. In "The Apollo 11 Diary," Thursday 17 July 1969 2:49am, it awkwardly says: "...the Landing Module, codenamed Eagle, is unpacked and separated from the Command Module, Columbia. The two craft re-dock head to head." It wasn't attached to the Command Module.

3. For Sunday 20 July 1969 2:58am it says: "Apollo 11 begins 'Lunar Orbit Injection.'" Should be "Insertion."

Below I have adapted some of the chapter headings and added a few notes for those who may want to know more about the historical clips on the DVD. Note the brown bag carried by Mike Collins, the wonderful slo-mo Saturn V liftoff (edited out of sequence but including the dark plume we discussed here), the invisible plume from the second stage (except when burning something in the way), and the IDs of some of the lunar features in the landing film. I think those are the West crater rocks that Armstrong overflew at 0:42:47 – does anyone know for sure?

The expressions of wonder from some of the people viewing the events on TV are marvellous (0:49:21). Is that Elizabeth Street in Sydney?

The Dish, 2000, DVD duration: 3:02:53
0:00:00 1 It's been through some amazing times
0:02:01 2 Before this decade is out
0:05:31 3 In the end it falls to you blokes
0:10:30 4 Whole town's abuzz
0:12:58 5 We' re a professional unit
0:16:14 6 Out to launch
0:18:58 7 I put extra cheese on yours
0:27:01 8 You treat us like a pack a galahs
0:28:56 9 We're his first impression of Parkes
0:35:14 10 Not that bloody pie-warmer again
0:41:28 11 I made a commitment to Nasa
0:45:33 12 Oh let's do that
0:50:27 13 I know where Apollo 11 is
0:54:40 14 Oh, that's good advice
0:55:58 15 Everybody get together
1:05:15 16 Makes our spirits soar
1:08:45 17 The Eagle has landed
1:12:19 18 Bit breezy this morning
1:16:23 19 Armstrong's overruled the sleep schedule
1:17:53 20 This is science's chance to be daring
1:21:03 21 We're getting a picture on the TV
1:24:12 22 One small step
1:29:43 23 For one priceless moment
1:32:45 24 End credits
1:37:20 End

Cast:
Sam Neill * -- Cliff Buxton
Kevin Harrington -- Ross "Mitch" Mitchell
Tom Long -- Glenn Latham
Patrick Warburton -- Al Burnett
Genevieve Mooy -- May McIntyre
Tayler Kane -- Rudi Kellerman
Billie Brown -- Prime Minister
Roy Billing * -- Mayor Bob McIntyre
Andrew S. Gilbert -- Len Purvis
Lenka Kripac -- Marie McIntyre
Matthew Moore -- Keith Morrison
Eliza Szonert -- Janine Kellerman
John McMartin -- U.S. Ambassador
Carl Snell -- Billy McIntyre

* Kiwis

0 - 11:21 The Dish on The Dish

0 - 02:33 Theatrical Trailer

0 - 00:32 "Sometimes" TV Spot
0 - 00:32 "Four Men" TV Spot
0 - 02:53 Bonus Trailer, "The Castle"

The Footage We Loved But Couldn't Use
0:00:00 1 JFK in Congress
0:03:40 2 Building Parkes telescope
0:05:10 3 Rice University speech
0:09:08 "This year's space budget is three times what it was in January 1961, and it is greater than the space budget of the previous eight years combined. That budget now stands at five billion four hundred million dollars a year — a staggering sum, though somewhat less than we pay for cigarettes and cigars every year."
0:09:40 "Space expenditures will soon rise some more from 40 cents per person per week, to more than 50 cents a week for every man, woman and child in the United States."
0:12:24 4 Astronaut seamstress
0:15:15 5 Morning of the mission
0:17:03 Just before he climbs into the transfer van, we see Mike Collins carrying under his right arm a brown bag which contained a present of a mounted fish for Guenter Wendt. [First on the Moon, p65]
0:17:28 6 Tom Mackay in Parkes
0:21:08 7 Lift off
0:23:50 Ignition sequence in slow motion from multiple angles, though not edited strictly in sequence. E.g.: The rocket rises before we see the hold-downs release it.
0:25:14 15-second view of dark plume from the Saturn V exhaust which was discussed on a thread here and the mystery solved by Jay Utah. Now where is that thread?
0:25:36 Two-second close-up of dark plume
0:28:32 Plume getting broader as rocket climbs higher
0:29:52 Staging
0:30:34 Skirt separation and tower eject
0:31:14 8 First stage being jettisoned
0:31:51 Second stage ignition, skirt separation and invisible plume (except when burning something), seen from the second stage
0:32:57 9 Apollo 11 stages
0:35:30 10 Channel 9 News
0:40:07 11 Eagle undocks and lands
0:41:44 16mm landing film
0:41:51 Boot Hill (National Geographic, Dec 1969, p752), 30 degrees 20 minutes east, 0 degrees 40 minutes north, 45km south of Maskelyne
0:41:58 Maskelyne W, 29 degrees 10 minutes east, 0 degrees 50 minutes north
0:42:06 Sidewinder Rille 28 degrees 20 minutes east, 0 degrees 40 minutes north
0:42:26 View on the right side of the LM
0:42:47 West Crater rocks
0:43:00 East Crater
0:43:11 Dust
0:43:19 Shadow of landing probe
0:43:47 12 One small step
0:45:27 Improved TV picture from Parkes
0:49:21 13 Australians watch moonwalk
0:49:26 People watching TV by the corner of Elizabeth Street [Is this Sydney?]
0:51:07 14 Phonecall to the moon
0:52:42 15 The kangaroo hop
0:54:03 Una Ronald's "Coke bottle" flare
0:54:50 Second "Coke bottle" flare as Aldrin does the kangaroo hop
0:55:34 16 Eagle returns to Columbia
1:00:10 17 Earth
1:00:43 18 Astronauts' broadcast
1:07:57 19 Re-entry and splashdown
1:09:55 20 Welcome back to Earth
1:10:35 End

Apollo 11 Diary
Times are shown as Parkes time, AEST

Thursday 17 July 1969 2:49am. Some Bad Apollo - "...the Landing Module, codenamed Eagle, is unpacked and separated from the Command Module, Columbia. The two craft re-dock head to head."

Thursday 17 July 1969 10:48pm. 2 minutes 54 seconds of news read to Apollo 11.

Sunday 20 July 1969 12:01am. News and Ruby Graham, Houston astrologer. GET 72:33, BST 3:05pm

Sunday 20 July 1969 12:44am. 43 second sound clip — "The Czar is brushing his teeth."

Sunday 20 July 1969 2:58am. More Bad Apollo - 'Apollo 11 begins "Lunar Orbit Injection."'

Tuesday 22 July 1969
"Fate has ordained that the men who went to the moon to explore in peace will stay on the moon to rest in peace.
"Those brave men, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, know there's no hope for their recovery. But they also know there is hope for mankind in their sacrifice.
"For every human being who looks up at the moon in the nights to come will know that there is some corner of another world that is forever mankind."
— U.S. President Richard Nixon had prepared this speech in case Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin had not been able to take off from the lunar surface.

Sticks · #21 (**permalink**) 28-January-2005, 01:44 PM

It looks like Richard Nixon was ripping of Rupert Brooke's The Soldier

Quote:

If I should die, think only this of me:
That there's some corner of a foreign field
That is for ever England. There shall be
In that rich earth a richer dust concealed;
A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware,
Gave, once, her flowers to love, her ways to roam,
A body of England's, breathing English air,
Washed by the rivers, blest by suns of home.

And think, this heart, all evil shed away,
A pulse in the eternal mind, no less
Gives somewhere back the thoughts by England given;
Her sights and sounds; dreams happy as her day;
And laughter, learnt of friends; and gentleness,
In hearts at peace, under an English heaven.

Sticks · #22 (**permalink**) 31-January-2005, 08:13 PM

The Dish gets my vote for Moving images from fiction

Just like watching the Moon walk for the first time \

/

ststeel · #23 (**permalink**) 05-February-2005, 05:50 PM

I actually grew up in a tiny village between Parkes and Forbes, and did my 2 week highschool work experience at the Parkes Radio Telescope Visitors Centre in 1986.

The Dish is an especially fun movie for my family, because almost all of the outside shots of buildings are in Forbes, a town 30 km south of Parkes, slightly smaller, and there is a bit of rivalry between the two. Forbes has gone the Historical Tourism approach, and Parkes has gone the Inner West Growing Town approach, so there's not a lot of old style buildings there.

Thowing the DVD on quickly, at 0:10:37, they have covered up the word "Forbes" with a different typeface of "Parkes" on a buiding in the Forbes Main Street. I do know the Johnson's Pies Sign at 0:18:28 is from a bakery in Parkes near what's now the Town Hall.

I also was in the same class as the American daughter of the administrator of the telescope, (Ables) around the same time, and she would tell stories of using equipment carts in the main dish when it was in maintainance mode (pointing straight up), so the Cricket game in the dish is very believable.

The first day I went there in a Bus they park it right next to the base of the building, so you get out and realise that there is several hundred tons of metal 30 metres in the air above you, and you keep a very careful eye on it until you are underneath. When I was there they were also testing a part of the drive assembly and this basically ment tilting it over as far as possible (about a metre of the ground) and going back and forth at the maximum speed, which was quite dramatic to watch.

I understand the town cashed in quite successfully from the movie, however we did have a long history of being very proud about the telescope, and it's often used in local artwork (e.g. http://www.parkes.nsw.gov.au/ )

I really need to get back there, haven't been there in over 15 years.

Sticks · #24 (**permalink**) 09-February-2005, 07:45 AM

I found this web-page detailing what the film did and did not get right.

I have now ordered my DVD copy from amazon \

/

glen chapman · #25 (**permalink**) 10-February-2005, 12:02 PM

Just a little side note on the date of the Landing. The convention is for the offical time and date to be dictated by the time zone of origin. Example the recent devastation in South East Asia, although spreading over a number of time zones is recorded as local Indonesian time.

Therefore as the flight was sponsored and sanctioned by the US, they get to pick the date.

And although highly inaccurate - I am glad so many drew enjoyment from the Dish - one thing it did was capture the spirit and imagination that griped the world in that time. Maybe sometime in our lifetime we will seek to rekindle that spirit and drive ourselves to new goals.

Manchurian Taikonaut · #26 (**permalink**) 16-February-2005, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trust No 1

Great to see this movie make an appearance here.
I really enjoyed this movie, even though it was not an accurate portrayal of events.

very good film =D>

Sticks · #27 (**permalink**) 15-March-2005, 06:19 PM

I managed to get a copy of the Sound Track CD =D>

Pity the alternative American Anthem is not on it :P

The Bad Astronomer · #28 (**permalink**) 15-March-2005, 09:29 PM

Bragging time: I visited the dish in November. It was humid and hot and there were flies everywhere, but it was totally cool! Here's an image of my friends and I in front of the venerable paraboloid (86k image; I'm the one in the Ozzie digger hat):

Sticks · #29 (**permalink**) 15-March-2005, 11:12 PM

What is the mini dish in the background to the right?

Is that the offset one mentioned in the film (I realise this is probably a dumb question

ops: )

Sticks · #30 (**permalink**) 15-March-2005, 11:14 PM

PS

BA

Did you get to go on a Hay Ride?

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