I don't remember which Star Wars book this was in (not that I read all, or even most of them...great, now you all think I'm a huge nerd...) but it was mentioned that Chewbacca is uncomfortable hanging out with other Wookies because he has a very bad speech impediment. He speaks Standard, but it takes a lot of getting used to in order to understand him. Of course, the books are not Canonical.

Aporetic

Mentioned in TOS in Return To Tomorrow (no, i no longer know the names off the top of my head; i had to consult an episode guide)--the one with Sargon.

With regard to alien cultures:

There have been complaints about various countries' cultures being submerged under the barrage of western (mainly US) "culture". This seems reasonable--unique cultures would probably be a function of ease of transportation. Given what we've seen in star trek, i imagine each planet (human or otherwise) would appear, at first glance anyway, fairly homogenous.

It would be nice if the aliens were truely alien, instead of humans with funny bumps, both from a physiological and a psychological standpoint. And it would be nice if the alien's culture were something other than a pale copy of some human culture (Klingon==Bushido). But that's hard to do--it requires a lot of forethought and planning and probably some central control, and seems to go against one of the themes of Star Trek (that under the skin, we're all human).

Watch Farscape on SciFi Friday night while you can. Done by Henson (i.e. Muppets) and have a variety of alien forms. Series has been cancelled by SciFi for among other reasons being too complicated for the network president's husband to understand, so there are only 6 more shows left to air.

I don't see the Klingons as particularly Japanese. They are missing one particular element of the Japanese ideal: self-control. The Japanese way is all about holding in your passions and doing everything with a highly structured, controlled, and most of all dispassionate attitude (Not that many actually attain that self-discipline of course, but that's the ideal). I don't think anyone could call the Klingons dispassionate or self-controlled.

I'm not really sure what to call them really. Maybe a kind of highly stylized Mongol hoard with a bit of Chinese kung fu thrown in.

B5 was really the best show out there, as far as a believable universe is concerned. They had some great aliens, such as the carrion-eaters. That was a great idea, in my opinion. There was at least on insectoid type as well, which was cool. And don't forget the Shadows. Also, B5 limited itself to only a couple of dozen races all told. It didn't flood the show with "ridge of the week" aliens.

On the downside though, above examples excluded, even B5 made most of its aliens humanoid in appearance. Of course we all know that practical considerations play a large part here, but all the major races were very human-like, especially the Centauri. They mostly suffered from the same cultural homogeneity effect mentioned above. Once again, the Centauri were particularly bad in this area. Only the Mimbari were given a multi-cultured society, and this is because their triple-caste system was pivotal to the storyline.

__________________
...And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped. --Sir Bedevere

I think part of the explanation may lie in the idea that the other starfaring races had homogenized their cultures when exposed to other intelligent species. Another SciFi book series I used to read had a quote that might explain some of it. The series was called Shadowrun. The quote about the end of ethnic racism was "Who cares about that dark skinned fellow, when that THING over there has hands as big as your head!" I think even human will start to lose their national and probably ethnic identities given long enough exposure to other species when we are shown, point blank, just how insignificant the differences between us really are.

Horrible thought... to lose the diversity that gives life depth and meaning!

All of us have lots in common, But it's where we differ is where the real learning takes place!

O, we won't lose diversity, we'll just not consider it a problem. Diversity arises spontaneously in any group of people of a hundred or so or more.

"[...] just how insignificant the differences [...]"

What I was reacting to was that word 'insignificant.' So often political correctness, and over-sensitivity suggest that erasing awareness of what makes us unique and different will some how solve problems.

For instance, in a fight we're told to "get over our differences," when respecting our differences, and nurturing them and embracing them, will help us get along much more peacefully. Most wars are one side trying to conform the other.

Gene Roddenberry built all this into the IDIC concept (Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations). That all the different alien races appeared human, were because to Gene, they were all aspects of humanity for the purposes of exploring human nature in story.

He really seems to have felt that we had, then, an infinite diversity within the scope of human nature worth exploring.

That's saying alot.

[edited for spelling, punctuation and clarity]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DaveOlden on 2003-02-13 05:58 ]</font>

g99
"(In my opinion):
Klingon: Japaneese
Romulan: Russians
Cardassian: Nazis
Ferengi: Middle east traders (just my opinion, not saying anything about that.)
Vulcan: Brittish (staunch allies and we share anything. Same in Star Trek)
and the list goes on... "

You need to remember when TOS was made, 1966. The beginning of The Cold War.

Federation: The western world for the most part, the United States, England, France, and Germany (NATO).
Klingon: USSR - Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The main opponent of the United States and NATO.
Romulans: Sort of like the East Germans. Similar to the Klingons (both ships and culture) and being devious and previously beaten in WWII/Terran-Romulan nuke war.
Cardassians: I don't think they were in TOS so they don't really qualify for this but.. Later though they could have used the Nazis as a base for them and this having no bearing on TOS relationships.
Ferengi: Probably what you said, perhaps the Korean/Vietnamese. They were introduced during TNG, still during the Cold War though.
Vulcans: I disagree with you on this one. They were most likely modeled after the West Germans. The Vulcans and Romulans (East Germans) split after a bloody war between emotions and logic. The Romulans leaving the Vulcan homeworld for a desolate region of space (east Germany under the commies). The Vulcans (West Germans), technologically advanced when we met them and rather nice guys. Romulans (East Germans), ruthless, cold, don't really care about their people.

Well, enough discussion for me for the night. The Cold War is the Key. -Colt

__________________
Be not afraid of any man no matter what his size; when danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize.

Doh! Forgot about the federation. I mean they even name their ships U.S.S. (______) !!

You are probobly right about the vulcans colt. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

__________________
GIYUL :-)
"It takes Thousands to fight a battle for a mile, Millions to hold an election for a nation, but it only takes One to change the world." - Dan Sandler 2002

I'm not so sure about the Vulcans myself. I agree that the rest of the races have analogues to real-world cultures, but I think Vulcans probably sprung directly out of Gene Roddenberry's mind. I don't think they really follow any single human culture. They are more of an idealized society.

__________________
...And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped. --Sir Bedevere

I don't know about the Vulcans - it seemed a lot of their philosophy/religion were Eastern in origin.

The Romulans may have been more like the East Germans, but in TNG they were definantly more like the Soviets (at least in how we were dealing with them at the time).

Klingons - they definantly changed from TOS to TNG, not just in appearance, but from becoming "just a mean species" to being a true warrior race. So, for TOS one could claim the Soviet Union for their base; for TNG, as far as their culture was concerned, could be more akin to the Japanes (the practice of an honorable death, and stuff like that).

But, in all fairness, it is very difficult to be creative enough to make up an alien culture without drawing from the things you know.


{Edit: Hey, that would be a challenge, to create your own culture for an alien species. Anyone up to the challenge?

Probably best to start a new thread if you want to try it rather than clutter this thread...I think. I'd start, but I can't think of anything at the moment.)

_________________
The lesser lights to rule the night, glimmers of glory, distant suns

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: nebularain on 2003-02-14 08:42 ]</font>

Well, I don't know about when they were originally created, but in Deep Space Nine, the Cardassians were almost explicitly Nazis, especially in their relationship with the Bajorans (although I wouldn't go so far as to say the Bajorans were intended to be Jewish in any aspect other than their oppression by the Nazis/Cardassians).

__________________
SeanF

"Ask to understand, but don't challenge unless you have the knowledge."--NEOWatcher

The contents of this post are ©2010 by SeanF and may not be copied or retransmitted in any form without the express written consent of SeanF

I'd say you compare West German people with the East German government and not with the East German people...

You are probably right. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Don't think I do not like Germans, I actually like them more compared to some other nations. I understand that they were not just a group of Nazis running around in WWII. They were the German Army, the Wehrmacht. In fact, I am into my second year of German at school (though I am not that good at it). [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

You could also make a case for the WG government against the EG government representing the Vulcans/Romulans. For either race we never have seen the populace of those planets, only the government and military characters. -Colt

__________________
Be not afraid of any man no matter what his size; when danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize.

Doodler wrote:
Given the human bent for xenophobia, if we meet an alien species that's really different, our first instinct will probably be to kill it.

Sure, while we're killing them, we'll all band together for a common cause -- but once the guns fall silent and peace returns, we'll be back to poining out all the old divisions between human groups again.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: tracer on 2003-02-17 21:34 ]</font>

What about the aliens from Starship Troopers? Should we walk out waving a flag and singing to them?

This brings up another point. Could those "bugs" be called intelligent? Only the brain-bug thing seemed to be intelligent and it was evil. -Colt

__________________
Be not afraid of any man no matter what his size; when danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize.

It wasn't evil, it just had a preference structure that is radically foreign to most of us mild-mannered folk sitting here typing.

Aporetic

Those two terms aren't mutually exclusive - "Evil" can certainly be described as "a preference structure that is radically foreign..." albeit a somewhat specific one.

I haven't seen Starship Troopers, but what would you consider to be a necessary component for "evil" that the bug in question did not have?

Just asking out of curiosity, BTW... [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

__________________
SeanF

"Ask to understand, but don't challenge unless you have the knowledge."--NEOWatcher

The contents of this post are ©2010 by SeanF and may not be copied or retransmitted in any form without the express written consent of SeanF

It would have to show up as evil if you cast a detect evil spell on it, of course.