Probably not, but I think the storyline is possibly the worst to make it into a film.

In the original Grudge (itself a remake of a Japanese film, with the same director, some of the same cast, and some of the same sets), we see Sarah Michelle Geller get caught up in a curse when she visits Tokyo. What it amounts to is that anyone who so much as sets foot in a particular house will get pursued either by the ghost of a skinny child who miaows and croaks, or else the ghost of a woman with very long black hair who bears an uncanny resemblance to Sadako/Samara from the Ring films. (I think the two ghosts are meant to be the same.) At first the ghosts just unnerve you, but after a bit they kill you, or drag you into a hellish dimension, or (in one instance) rip your lower jaw off.

The first film is sort-of okayish, but is dissatisfying for some very fundamental reasons. For one, the ghost does not have an interesting motivation. We're told she died in a state of rage, and wants her victims to suffer as she suffered, but the victims have nothing to do with her death, nor does her modus operandi. For another, she has limitless powers. Ring worked because there was a pleasingly clever solution to the problem of the killer videotape, but in Grudge there is absolutely NOTHING you can do. If you run away she will still find you. She can appear absolutely anywhere. She cannot be placated or fought. There is no defence against her. It's basically a Bambi versus Godzilla fight, in which Godzilla doesn't kill Bambi straight away because he'd rather drag it out for a couple of hours.

The first film partly gets away with this because you don't KNOW that there's nothing the characters can do until near the end. I assumed that in the second film some characters would discover her weakness, and there would be some suspense as to whether or not they would be able to use it to defeat her. But it didn't happen. Instead, we have three separate storylines, confusingly linked, in which three lots of people helplessly face the monotonous hauntings before she finally decides to kill them. It turns out that Sarah Michelle Geller survived the first film, but ended up in a mental hospital; very early on in the second film, the ghost kills her by throwing her off the hospital roof. The rest of the film consists of waiting for each of the other characters to get done in - which they all do in due course. This time the victims don't even have to have been in her house - they merely have to live near someone who has.

The actual production values of the film, the acting, and so on, are all fine. In other words, on the surface it is a much better film than Plan 9 From Outer Space. But in story terms it stinks.

the only truly original semi big budget film to come out of hollywood this year was Clerks 2.
okay, granted, i knew kind of how it was going to end up.. but all the stuff along the way was mostly unexpected.
and everything at least seemed like it could plausibly happen in the real world, given the right circumstances.

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It is copied from a Japanese movie so the motivations are different than those of Western films.... yes, both the woman and Sadako are a type of Yūrei (ghost) known as Onryō http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onry%C5%8D Some of these continue to haunt long after their killers are dead, simply by the inertia of their sense of vengence. Sometimes particularly strong emotion can create Ikiryō (not a ghost but behaves like one) while the person is still alive (it becomes a separate entity from the person who creates it, born of intense rage, remorse, frustration etc.) They sometimes seem like an evil twin of the person who spawned them.

Ju-on/Grudge has sort of a kharmic twist in that the man killed his wife in such a brutal way that she came back as an onryō allowing his evil influence to live on after his own death... the little kid is a zashiki-warashi or child ghost. These often cause a lot of minor mischief, but are generally believed to bring good fortune and protect the home, but in this case he's probably hanging around because the Onryō is his mother and he doesn't have the power to counteract her or her father's evil kharma. Anyway, that's my take on it.

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mi hatenu yume no
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(This final scene, I
I will not see to the end.
My dream is fraying.)

ok so telling us the Japanes names of the ghosts makes a difference to a stinker of a film? What's the point if there is no way out for any of the characters?

Most modern so called 'horror' films just seem to be a parade of pointless sadistic killings with no real suspense, but if you know that there is no way for any of the characters to survive then whats the point? no suspense!

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I agree. There are a lot of horror films with no way out. I initially liked the weirdness of the "Nightmare on Elm Street" film, but lost interest when it became clear there was no way to actually win. So they made a bunch of sequels . . .

Back in the old Hammer films, ole' Dracula would come back, but individuals had a real chance of a limited victory and getting away alive. I tend to avoid horror flicks these days. They rarely have that B movie charm, and just seem to be a way to see people get hurt.

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Meh. All art is subjective, especially when it comes from other cultures. I saw Ju-on/Grudge the other night (the original Japanese one, the US one doesn't interest me) and Yazuha's post has actually helped me understand what was an interesting, though confusing and seemingly pointless, film.

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Nah, but knowing the basis makes them more understandable. I'll agree... I don't like most of the Yakuza or slasher films like Versus or OldBoy (which, I must admit is a very good psychological thriller even if I don't like it), but I'm a sucker for Asian spook films, ranging from rather comic ones like the Yokai Monster series ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0164402/ for example) to cultish ones like the Tomie and Eko Eko Azarak ( http://www.mandiapple.com/snowblood/eko1.htm ) series, Mr Vampire , Chinese Ghost Story, Onmyoji etc. Another factor in some of these not having a satisfying ending is that many are based on long running manga series which have not yet reached a conclusion, so the movies are basically eye-candy for the novel/manga fans.

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Sue ikki
mi hatenu yume no
hotsure kana---Choko
(This final scene, I
I will not see to the end.
My dream is fraying.)

Worst film ever was Glitter. I have an MFA in theatre and every person I've ever went to school with or was taught by has agreed on this.

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I'm happy to say I haven't seen it. But it does have competition for worst film. Here's IMDB's bottom 100:

http://www.imdb.com/chart/bottom

It is pretty bad, at number 14. But the worst 5 they list are:

1. 1.8 From Justin to Kelly (2003)
2. 1.9 Going Overboard (1989)
3. 1.9 SuperBabies: Baby Geniuses 2 (2004)
4. 1.9 Santa with Muscles (1996)
5. 1.9 Troll 2 (1990)

I don't recall seeing any of them.

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Well, Grude and Grude II are based on the Japanese trilogy, so look for Grude III around Christmas 2007.

I think the idea is that you don't know that it's hopeless for the hapless victims. (Sorry, couldn't resist.) Remember, in the first movie, there was a chance of ending the curse by detroying the house; maybe they'll find a way in the next sequel.

Worst movie ever... I didn't see it on the imdb list (I don't think, 'cause I can't remember the title, but nothing rang a bell), but the worst movie I ever saw was a period epic set in ancient Greece and starring two twin brothers who are also pro-wrestlers. Lots of muscles, tiny brains.

In the only scene worth recounting, they find themselves in a catacomb filled with the remains of ancient warriors. The evil wizard reanimates the dead warriors and sets them after the brothers.

As the brothers exit the catacombs, they run into a procession of Vestal virgins. The undead warriors come after the brothers. The brothers exit stage left; the virgins, stage right.

The warriors start after the brothers, then stop, look at the fleeing virgins, and take off after them.

One brother says to the other, "Well, what do you expect. They haven't had a woman for 300 years."

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I haven't seen it, but I'm guessing that's The Barbarian Brothers, aka The Barbarians.

Looks like a classic.

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If done well, the "no way out" scenario can pay big dividends. My favourite horror film of all time, "Angel Heart" had a "no way out" resolution, as did my favourite recent horror movie, "The Descent" (British version, not American)

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Haven't seen it, but I thought Gigli (Afflick/what's her name) was supposed to be one of the worst movies ever.

I really enjoyed Ringu...really creepy more than anything else...

Pete

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There's so much I don't know about astrophysics. I wish I had read that book by that wheelchair guy.

I really liked the first Jeepers Creepers movie. It had a "no way out" think to it, but the twist was it only wanted one of the kids, and no one knew which one. I have a really hard time getting in to "scary" movies. Most seem really silly to me. I can see how The Ring was scary though. I thought it was well done.

Saw was very good in a suspense sort of way, though they did make one HUGE mistake at the end that may not have been a mistake, but a clue.

Saw II, not so much. Maybe three will be a keeper.

FOr worst movie ever, I'd cast a vote for FearDotCom. We had to see this becasue Stephen Rea is the GF's #1 celebrity lust puppet. Too bad his American accent comes out sounding like a certain cartoon mounty... The plot was pretty much the same as The Ring. A killer (Rea) grabs a victim, finds out what scares them, then tortures them with it on a live webcame until they plead to die. Anyone that clicks on the website gets stalked by the ghost of a little girl and dies 72 hours later. At one point the heroes go to a house where a missing girl lived. They show a bunch of pictures from the website to her mom.

"Do you recognise this girl?"
"Yes, that's my daughter. She died a few years ago."
"Sorry to hear that"
"She was always a happy child, despite her condition."
"She had hemophilia. The slightest scratch could kill her. She was terrified of needles and glass."
"Do you recognise anything else"
"Oh this picture is the abadonded steel mill where she used to play."

Yeah... good story line, that. And for those that can't get enough cliche, the number on the front door of the house was 1313.

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