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  #1801 (permalink)  
Old 16-January-2008, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Tog_ View Post
Tom Marvolo Riddle= I am Lord Voldemort for a rather well known example.
As Hermione said "Most Wizards aren't very good at logic".

However in their defense, anagrams of "Voldemort" wouldn't lead directly to "Tom Marvolo Riddle" and Tom Riddle wasn't really famous, so even the anagrams containing "Tom Riddle" wouldn't attract much attention.
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Old 16-January-2008, 02:14 PM
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Are you sure?
Dumbledor was quite aware Tom Riddle = Voldemort. He never hid it. When the big "V" came to Hogwarts to interview for the Defense Against the Dark Arts position, he was quite annoyed that Dumbledor kept calling him "Tom".
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  #1803 (permalink)  
Old 16-January-2008, 03:51 PM
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More importantly, neither Harry nor Ginny knew who Tom Riddle was. Anybody else almost certainly would have recognized the name Tom Riddle as Voldemort's birth name. But nobody was talking about V... Vol... He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named. And as far as I remember, Tom did not introduce himself as "Tom Marvolo Riddle" until moments before revealing himself. IIRC, he'd introduced himself only as "Tom Riddle".

As for naming Tom "Tom", Dumbledore knew very well that invoking a name invoked power, and so it was entirely in character for Dumbledore to 1) weaken Tom by using his given name in his hearing rather than by the name of power Tom had chosen for himself, and 2) by attempting to nudge Tom back to a less malignant view of himself.

The core facet of the adult Dumbledore was his belief in personal redemption, he himself having experienced it so intimately. But I think Voldemort showed fairly clear (for a layperson, anyway), fairly early warning signs of being a sociopathic or psychopathic personality (lack of personal empathy, casual willingness to abuse people). As far as I understand psychotic abnormalities, they aren't especially self-treatable.

Dumbledore was absolutely wrong to hand him power without also seeing him treated (or at the very least diagnosed).
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  #1804 (permalink)  
Old 16-January-2008, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Tog_ View Post
(still can't get the "e" to get that little thing over it).

Type Alt-0233 (numbers typed on the number pad) to get the accent aigue.
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  #1805 (permalink)  
Old 16-January-2008, 04:01 PM
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It looks like I had some of the steps a bit out line, but then one question still remains. If Ginny, Ron, Hermoinie and everyone in the wizarding world except Harry knew that it was bad to say Voldemort, wouldn't they all have known it was equally wrong to mention Tom Riddle, at least to the point that when Ginny first met him in the book, something should have clicked?
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  #1806 (permalink)  
Old 16-January-2008, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog_ View Post
It looks like I had some of the steps a bit out line, but then one question still remains. If Ginny, Ron, Hermoinie and everyone in the wizarding world except Harry knew that it was bad to say Voldemort, wouldn't they all have known it was equally wrong to mention Tom Riddle, at least to the point that when Ginny first met him in the book, something should have clicked?
It's not necessarily true that the whole wizarding world would have known of Tom Riddle. But wizards of Riddle's generation who attended Hogwarts would have recognized the name, and may well have accepted Riddle's decision to change his name.

Folks of other generations, however, might not have become aware of Voldemort prior to his rise to power, which happened well after the name change.

Very few people had the courage to resist Voldemort in any way, to the point of being unwilling to so much as pronounce his chosen name. Only one person who'd known him prior to his name change was ever willing to defy him openly. There seemed to be no (surviving) members of the Order of the Phoenix of Riddle's immediate generation, and even they wouldn't speak of Voldemort by name.

So while some older wizards would certainly recognize the name "Tom Riddle" had they encountered it, very few would be willing to admit it. Certainly none would volunteer that information to Harry. And neither Harry nor Ginny ever brought it up outside of their closest circle of friends.
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  #1807 (permalink)  
Old 16-January-2008, 07:08 PM
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Are you sure? It seemed to be pretty common knowledge that Voldemort was a bad name to say, even to small children, but it didn't seem to bother Ginny at all to write messages to Tom Riddle in the diary. Of course, I may be remembering things incorrectly. I just don't recall anyone flinching at the name of Tom Riddle, which it seems they should have done if it was well known.
Ginny was eleven and didn't talk to anyone about it. There are plenty of eleven-year-olds who couldn't tell you Mussolini's first name, and he didn't change it, or name who was Emperor of Japan during WWII. Voldemort was before her time by a solid year. Admittedly, it's not as distant as WWII, but Voldemort's last use of the name pretty much was. How many people know Lenin's real name, or Stalin's? Heck, even while he was alive, how many people knew John Wayne's?
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  #1808 (permalink)  
Old 16-January-2008, 07:23 PM
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Voldemort was before her time by a solid year. Admittedly, it's not as distant as WWII, but Voldemort's last use of the name pretty much was.
I guess, it makes sense in that context, but it still seems odd to me.

So... Anyway, back on topic (sort of). In video games, and comics, and a few movies, LotR being the only exception I can think of, Dwarves seem to have a disproportionately high Scottish accent. And yes, this is something I've noticed for a while, and it's bugged me a bit since I first noticed it. I figure there must be some lost cultural reference I just don't get.
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  #1809 (permalink)  
Old 16-January-2008, 07:25 PM
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I don't like this one, either:
If you volunteer to join a superteam, the hero with the power most similar to yours will leave for some reason, and you'll have to replace them. Not because you're evil and planned it, but just because that's how fate has it.
For example:
I can generate force fields. I volunteer to join the Fantastic Four. Who do you think will need a replacement that day?
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Old 16-January-2008, 08:14 PM
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I don't like this one, either:
If you volunteer to join a superteam, the hero with the power most similar to yours will leave for some reason, and you'll have to replace them. Not because you're evil and planned it, but just because that's how fate has it.
For example:
I can generate force fields. I volunteer to join the Fantastic Four. Who do you think will need a replacement that day?
Johnny?

No... hmmmm...

Franklin?

Huh... a toughy... Hmmmm
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Old 16-January-2008, 08:34 PM
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Ginny was eleven and didn't talk to anyone about it. There are plenty of eleven-year-olds who couldn't tell you Mussolini's first name, and he didn't change it, or name who was Emperor of Japan during WWII. Voldemort was before her time by a solid year. Admittedly, it's not as distant as WWII, but Voldemort's last use of the name pretty much was. How many people know Lenin's real name, or Stalin's? Heck, even while he was alive, how many people knew John Wayne's?
But, of course, nobody makes a big deal that it's exceedingly dangerous to speak Stalin's name. If people did, I think the fact that he changed his name (and what he changed it from) would be more widely discussed.
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  #1812 (permalink)  
Old 16-January-2008, 09:22 PM
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Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov

Josef Vissarionovich Djugashvili

Marion Morrison

Actually, not too sure about the last one...
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  #1813 (permalink)  
Old 16-January-2008, 09:59 PM
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Marion Michael Morrison. Or maybe Marion Robert Morrison. Or Marion Mitchell Morrison.


Pilgrim.
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Old 16-January-2008, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Tog_ View Post
So... Anyway, back on topic (sort of). In video games, and comics, and a few movies, LotR being the only exception I can think of, Dwarves seem to have a disproportionately high Scottish accent. And yes, this is something I've noticed for a while, and it's bugged me a bit since I first noticed it. I figure there must be some lost cultural reference I just don't get.
Huh? I thought it was pretty clear that Gimli in the LOTR movies does have a scottish accent. Doesn't he call people "lad and lass"?
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Old 16-January-2008, 10:20 PM
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I wonder if the Dwarves scottish accent thing may have originated as a sort of "Highlands" parallel. Dwarves being mountain dwellers, scotland being mountainous/hilly and the like. Both having a reputation as hardcore drinkers. Etc.
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Old 16-January-2008, 10:28 PM
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... How many people know Lenin's real name, or Stalin's? Heck, even while he was alive, how many people knew John Wayne's?
The embarassing thing is, Wayne's is the only one I knew. What does that say about me? (Don't answer that!)

Oh, and Gillian, my congratulations on actually getting Lenin, Stalin, and Wayne into the same paragraph and in an inclusively positive context. Neat feat.
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Old 16-January-2008, 10:41 PM
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The embarassing thing is, Wayne's is the only one I knew. What does that say about me? (Don't answer that!)
I dunno what it says about you. But this is the very first I've heard that their chosen names weren't their birth names. Huh.
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Old 16-January-2008, 10:49 PM
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A lot of public figures legally change their name to their nom de plume or stage name (Stan Lee, Elton John) so in a sense, it is their "real" name.
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Old 17-January-2008, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim