Movie Clichés That Get On Your Nerves - Page 72

Ilya · #**2131** (**permalink**) 11-March-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gillianren

It encourages sinful behaviour, apparently. There was a lot wrong with the Code.

OMG. "Hamlet" and "Oedipus Rex" encourage sinful behavior?? And could not be shown under the Code?

Not to mention the story of 300 Spartans at Thermopylae. There's a real-life tragedy if ever was one.

I am REALLY glad the Code is gone!

Larry Jacks · #**2132** (**permalink**) 11-March-2008, 02:20 PM

Not to mention the story of 300 Spartans at Thermopylae. There's a real-life tragedy if ever was one.

Several months ago, I saw a movie made in the early 1960s about the Spartans at Thermopylae. While I'm not certain if the code was still in effect when the movie was made, the theme of the movie was about what men will (and should) do to live free. It was basically a Cold War propaganda movie. One has to note that the Spartan definition of "living free" was somewhat different from our own.

Instead of "Alien vs Predator", I'd like to see a historical study on Spartan vs Samurai. Both were warrior cultures with some things in common. The Samurai had better weapons but they also had another 1000 years of so to perfect their swordmaking. I've often wondered how they would compare to one another if they had equal weapons.

Ara Pacis · #**2133** (**permalink**) 11-March-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilya

I read your phrase and the post you are responding to several times, and I do not understand what you are trying to say. Could you elaborate please?

A lot of movies are moving towards the use of an Anti-hero that acts in the non-cliche way. This makes the use of a regular hero less common and when used, more accurate and less cliche, I think. In other words, the hero's actions are no as cliche when there is a valid alternative to using a hero.

ineluki · #**2134** (**permalink**) 11-March-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drunk Vegan

No matter how many people the villain has killed or how many times the hero has witnessed his gruesome acts, he never just shoots the bastard.

It's a shame those Heroes usually never think twice before killing a simple henchman, they only hesitate for the main villain.

Jason · #**2135** (**permalink**) 11-March-2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drunk Vegan

"The hero never shoots first."

This annoys me more than anything else. Writers always come up with some kind of plot device where the hero has to be in immediate mortal danger in order to take out the bad guy. (He's going for a gun!

No matter how many people the villain has killed or how many times the hero has witnessed his gruesome acts, he never just shoots the bastard.

Malcolm Reynolds broke that cliche wide open.

James Bond also often kills the villain without being in immediate danger himself.

stutefish · #**2136** (**permalink**) 11-March-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tog_

The bad guy is a Russian Intelligence (they called him "Ivan") operative that had tormented the hero and his friend in Vietnam. It turns out that the friend (T.C.) had been brainwashed to be a sleeper agent. During the show, Magnum's friend, Mac, jumps into Magnum's car and asks if they all want to go and see the sunrise. The car explodes and Mac goes on to be on Tales of the Gold Monkey as the mechanic. In part 2, the plot is revealed and stopped. Ivan has diplomatic immunity so the state department can't touch him even though they know what he really is. His car is stopped on the road and he's dragged into the forest by Magnum. Ivan is unarmed and not a threat in any way. They talk a bit, and Ivan delivers the "You don't have it in you to kill me in cold blood" line. Magnum asks if Ivan saw the sunrise that morning. Ivan, pauses and said "Yes I did. Why?" The episode closes on a still frame of the muzzle flash and no music over the sound of the gunshot.

Which reminds me of another cliche: The Russian bad guy's name is always Ivan.

Or Boris.

Extravoice · #**2137** (**permalink**) 11-March-2008, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ineluki

It's a shame those Heroes usually never think twice before killing a simple henchman, they only hesitate for the main villain.

From IMDB:

Nigel Powers: Do you know who I am?
Henchman Sailor: [nods]
Nigel Powers: Have you got any idea how many anonymous henchmen I've killed over the years?
Henchman Sailor: [nods again]
Nigel Powers: I mean, look at you. You don't even have a name tag. You've got no chance. Why don't you just fall down?
[henchman falls down]

captain swoop · #**2138** (**permalink**) 11-March-2008, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stutefish

Here's a cliche that gets on my nerves:

No matter how deep the shipyard says a submarine can dive, the captain always insists on going even deeper, just for fun. Later, the submarine will be forced by circumstances to dive even deeper than that. C.f. Das Boot, K-19.

This happened quite a lot. The safe diving depth is a lot shallower than the 'Crush Depth' There are plenty of instances of WW2 subs diving well below their safe depth either accidentaly or deliberately and surviving. Of course, the ones that didn't survive we don't hear about.

As it happens I have just had a rush of enthusiasm for WW2 Submarine stories.

Moose · #**2139** (**permalink**) 11-March-2008, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Extravoice

Nigel Powers: I mean, look at you. You don't even have a name tag. You've got no chance. Why don't you just fall down?

Mass Effect had a similar scene where you've just finished taking out the regular guards and are left with a few already-wavering 3rd-stringers standing between you and the target.

Shepard: (not even raising his/her gun) This might be a good time to think about finding a new line of work.
3rd-string minion unofficial spokesman with barely a moment's hesitation: I never liked him anyway. *they leave*
Williams: I can't believe that worked.

NEOWatcher · #**2140** (**permalink**) 11-March-2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain swoop

...As it happens I have just had a rush of enthusiasm for WW2 Submarine stories.

Let me crush that rush with 2 words... Operation Petticoat.

captain swoop · #**2141** (**permalink**) 11-March-2008, 06:27 PM

The original film or the 70s TV Pilot?

captain swoop · #**2142** (**permalink**) 11-March-2008, 06:33 PM

When I say Submarine stories I mean books like 'One of our Submarines' by Edward Young. His account of his war experiences commanding an RN sub in the Med and tha Far East and 'Unbroken' by Alistair Mars, his account of his experiences commanding a sub in the Med (the HMS Unbroken of the title) he was one of the top RN 'Aces' although Youngs book is by far the most readable, he is one of the few pwople to survive a submarine sinking, escaping from a boat sunk by an accidental ramming at night in the North Sea.

stutefish · #**2143** (**permalink**) 11-March-2008, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain swoop

When I say Submarine stories I mean books like 'One of our Submarines' by Edward Young. His account of his war experiences commanding an RN sub in the Med and tha Far East and 'Unbroken' by Alistair Mars, his account of his experiences commanding a sub in the Med (the HMS Unbroken of the title) he was one of the top RN 'Aces' although Youngs book is by far the most readable, he is one of the few pwople to survive a submarine sinking, escaping from a boat sunk by an accidental ramming at night in the North Sea.

I'd like to recommend "On the Bottom", a fascinating submarine salvage tale from 1925.

Gillianren · #**2144** (**permalink**) 11-March-2008, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilya

OMG. "Hamlet" and "Oedipus Rex" encourage sinful behavior?? And could not be shown under the Code?

Not to mention the story of 300 Spartans at Thermopylae. There's a real-life tragedy if ever was one.

I am REALLY glad the Code is gone!

But Claudius dies in Hamlet. I mean, everyone dies in Hamlet, but the point is that he doesn't profit from his wicked ways. And, yes, there were certain pieces of literature that couldn't be filmed because of either content or ending. It's been many years since I read Oedipus Rex, but as I recall, all the "wicked" people got punished in one way or another at the end. And the Spartans weren't fighting against evil but against another military force. But either way, The 300 Spartans was made in the dying days of the Code, back when about all that was left that was still forbidden was portrayals of homosexuality. Yeah. The Code was a major detriment to creativity.

And I love Operation Petticoat!

Ilya · #**2145** (**permalink**) 11-March-2008, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gillianren

But Claudius dies in Hamlet. I mean, everyone dies in Hamlet, but the point is that he doesn't profit from his wicked ways.

Including Hamlet. In the post I was replying to, you wrote "in the old days of the Code, films couldn't have endings wherein Good didn't prevail." In Hamlet evil is punished, but good does not survive. Which is pretty much the definition of classical tragedy.

Quote:

And, yes, there were certain pieces of literature that couldn't be filmed because of either content or ending. It's been many years since I read Oedipus Rex, but as I recall, all the "wicked" people got punished in one way or another at the end.

Arguably, Oedipus Rex has no "good" people.

Quote:

And the Spartans weren't fighting against evil but against another military force. But either way, The 300 Spartans was made in the dying days of the Code, back when about all that was left that was still forbidden was portrayals of homosexuality.

Which rather distorts any portrayal of Sparta!

Come to think of it, recent movie "300" also glossed over that part -- although Xerxes in it is very androgynous.

Noclevername · #**2146** (**permalink**) 11-March-2008, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason

Malcolm Reynolds broke that cliche wide open.

James Bond also often kills the villain without being in immediate danger himself.

There was also a time beofre the cliche became a cliche. Like all the old westerns with gunfighters facing each other down in the streets; Whoever shoots first wins.

Delvo · #**2147** (**permalink**) 11-March-2008, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noclevername

There was also a time beofre the cliche became a cliche. Like all the old westerns with gunfighters facing each other down in the streets; Whoever shoots first wins.

And yet they both stand there waiting for each other to shoot. That never made any sense to me.

Gillianren · #**2148** (**permalink**) 11-March-2008, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilya

Including Hamlet. In the post I was replying to, you wrote "in the old days of the Code, films couldn't have endings wherein Good didn't prevail." In Hamlet evil is punished, but good does not survive. Which is pretty much the definition of classical tragedy.

Yes, I know; let's face it, the censors wouldn't know dramatic tradition if you walloped them about the head with a Complete Works. However, Hamlet does get the last word, and the throne goes to the person he declares as his successor, and that was close enough. (Also . . . I'm not sure even the censors would have wanted to go on record as having banned Hamlet.)

Quote:

Arguably, Oedipus Rex has no "good" people.

Arguably so, yes. This may be why only one film was made of it during the Code days, and it was Canadian.

Quote:

Which rather distorts any portrayal of Sparta!

Come to think of it, recent movie "300" also glossed over that part -- although Xerxes in it is very androgynous.

There's more than just androgyny in his tent! But yes, quite a lot of things got glossed over or removed entirely from historical stories of the era. Then again, they gloss over them now, too; we don't have the Code anymore, but there is still censorship on the subject. A little-known fact is that any act between two homosexuals onscreen will result in a higher rating from the MPAA than the exact same act between two heterosexuals.