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09-November-2007, 01:30 PM
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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction." Shakespeare, Twelfth Night "The Mayan symbol for "book" looks a lot like a triple hamburger, but I've never seen them claiming it as proof the Mayans had Big Macs." - KaiYeves "Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort 
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09-November-2007, 02:34 PM
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Somewhat off-topic: Alastair Reynolds' "Revelation Space" features an aircraft (NOT a spacecraft) which does not violate fundamental laws of physics, but probably takes the cake for "excessive unobtainium overengineering when much easier solutions would work for far less energy". The plane is aerodynamic (delta wing), and its entire underside is covered in miniature jet nozzles (I assume intakes are on top) which heat the air to plasma temeperature and expel it downward and backward -- or sideways if needed. Energy source is unexplained. Nozzles stand up to near-sun-surface temperatures. Looking up at a low-flying plane can cause permanent eye damage.
[Edited]: Now that I think of it, if you DO have materials that can stand up to photosphere temperatures, and a power source of appropriate energy density, then it is not a bad design. Very few moving parts, and if some nozzles fail, there is only slight loss of performance. The fact that you can not look at it without welders' goggles is a problem though.
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Fiction has to be plausible. Reality is under no such constraint.
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09-November-2007, 03:04 PM
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Yes, but...
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A. How far in the future was that? Galen never says. AND B. How much access to Minbari technology did Earth have as part of the IA? I would say quite a bit since the Excalibur appeared to have Gar/Anti gav tech.
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Carl Matherly Offical Battlestar Galactica Apologist Named Time Magazine's 2006 "Person of the Year"
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09-November-2007, 04:09 PM
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The Aircars in OA use fancloth, which is a speculative material imagined by J Storrs Hall.
more details on fancloth here http://www.imm.org/publications/reports/rep004/ I have taken the opportunity to make my illustration look just a little like Supercar...
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New Orion's Arm Site . The Starlark . Against a Diamond Sky (OA Novella Collection) . OA Flickr set
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09-November-2007, 04:25 PM
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Sheridan and the Centauri Prince visit Babylon 5 about ten years before the events in Sleeping in Light. According to Galen, ten years after Sleeping in Light, Vir Cotto dies and the Centauri Prince becomes Emperor. Twenty years after Sleeping in Light, in that timeline, the Centauri Prince decides to take out the Humans, which is what you see depicted just off of Central Park in Galen's vision. Quote:
Air Cars don't seem to be all that much of a stretch from there.
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And you, to whom adversity has dealt the final blow With smiling [faces] lyin' to ye' everywhere ye' go Turn to, and put out all your strength of arm and heart and brain And like the Mary Ellen Carter, rise again.
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09-November-2007, 04:29 PM
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In the ST world, the Borg ships are the pinnacle of aerodynamic design.
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09-November-2007, 04:30 PM
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For intrinsic un-airworthiness I nominate Manhattan (from the Cities in Flight stories). Of course, once you have a spindizzy you can do pretty much whatever you want.
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If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers.
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09-November-2007, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
__________________
And you, to whom adversity has dealt the final blow With smiling [faces] lyin' to ye' everywhere ye' go Turn to, and put out all your strength of arm and heart and brain And like the Mary Ellen Carter, rise again.
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09-November-2007, 04:33 PM
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09-November-2007, 05:30 PM
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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King) One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009 All moderation in purple
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09-November-2007, 10:32 PM
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Does that make the borg hottie from ST: First Contact a drag queen?
Fred
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"For shame, gentlemen, pack your evidence a little better against another time." -- John Dryden, "The Vindication of The Duke of Guise" 1684
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09-November-2007, 10:52 PM
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The last time I felt a warm fuzzy feeling, I was informed by my doctor that it was just gas.
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09-November-2007, 11:09 PM
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It comes down to something I just don't believe they considered when writing/showing this.
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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong? Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability. The Leif Ericson Cruiser
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10-November-2007, 12:08 AM
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I don't see how it's a problem if a spacecraft is going to crash or catch fire when entering atmosphere. All you need to do is call the flying fire engines of StarWars episode 3. No matter how bad a shape your spaceship is in, they'll sprinkle some water on you and make sure you land safely, even if your spaceship is falling through the air in exactly the same way a Vogon spacecraft isn't.
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10-November-2007, 04:04 PM
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Except that many of the examples HAVE already flown.... as radio-controlled models. X-Wings, Y-Wings, Vipers and more have been done by the R/C guys over the years. Browse through the topics over at the E-Zone (Electric powered plane) board sometime and you'll find lots of examples of your 'un-flyable' aircraft... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/index.php?topic=air-elec I've been flying R/C for over 30 years now and have seen lots of weird stuff fly well. How about some FLYING TRUCKS to start off with??? http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=764854
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10-November-2007, 06:29 PM
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For the opposite - aerodynamic shapes but used mostly in space, I nominate the Raiders ships in Babylon 5, which look like they were designed by Jack Northrop.
I suppose they retain WWII style camouflage on the upper surfaces in case they're flying low within a planet's atmosphere and all other means of detection save for human eyes are not available - or it just looks cool. 
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"Insignificant molehill sometimes more important than conspicuous mountain." - Charlie Chan
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10-November-2007, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
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The last time I felt a warm fuzzy feeling, I was informed by my doctor that it was just gas.
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12-November-2007, 10:23 PM
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I'd note that the X-Wing (and a number of other SW ships) doesn't have "wings" but rather S-Foils. These are predominately to hold the weapons on.
Well to spread the weapons out from the body of the ship and each other to give a better spread of blaster fire from them. They also have heat radiators in them and as a secondary effect may help with stablisation in an atmosphere. Most atmospheric flying is done on Repulsarlift and forward thrust however.
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Howling from the Shadows It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername Apollo: The History and the Hoax Enter the World of Athran
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13-November-2007, 02:47 AM
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Since the F-16, American fighter jets have been inherently unstable, deliberately, and so are some of the more recent foreign fighters. While a plane is flying straight forward without any maneuvering adjustments, small momentary changes in air pressure at one part of the plane's surface or another will always develop, which momentarily tug at the plane in one direction or another. With a stable plane, the resulting tiny lateral and/or vertical movement of the plane (if it happens at all) automaticly cancels out the pressure variation, so the plane keeps moving straight forward without having to do anything to compensate. With an unstable plane, the plane's tiny movement as a result of the same tug from the air would magnify the tug instead, jerking the plane out of alignment and sending it into a spin or tumble. An unstable plane can only maintain straight forward flight by making lots of really quick little adjustments in its steering to compensate. That's done by "fly by wire" electronics instead of by the pilot; the maneuvers the pilot intends to make are input to that computer system, which then calculates exactly how to do the maneuver while also constantly adjusting against turbulence to keep itself in the air and in control. Instability is good for maneuverability, as long as it can be kept under enough control that it's not too detrimental to safety, speed, or fuel efficiency.
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13-November-2007, 03:12 AM
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R/C versions that can actually fly of spacecraft from SciFi shows employ I suspect many clever alterations to maintain workable aerodynamic qualities while still resembling the original model.
__________________
"Insignificant molehill sometimes more important than conspicuous mountain." - Charlie Chan
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13-November-2007, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction." Shakespeare, Twelfth Night "The Mayan symbol for "book" looks a lot like a triple hamburger, but I've never seen them claiming it as proof the Mayans had Big Macs." - KaiYeves "Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort
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13-November-2007, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
__________________
"Insignificant molehill sometimes more important than conspicuous mountain." - Charlie Chan
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13-November-2007, 04:36 PM
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I always thought that those weird looking ships from the movie "Dune" would never work. Without some kind of anti-gravity, they would certainly fall out of the sky like a rock.
I also think the Tardis from Dr. Who wouldn't make it. It's true that it generally just appears and disappears when traveling, but I have seen a few episodes where the Tardis is seen flying in space and in planetary atmospheres. Truly a flying brick!
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13-November-2007, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
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"Ten percent of nothin' is, let me do the math here... nothin' and a nothin', carry the nothin'" "There are four lights!"
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13-November-2007, 05:17 PM
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13-November-2007, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction." Shakespeare, Twelfth Night "The Mayan symbol for "book" looks a lot like a triple hamburger, but I've never seen them claiming it as proof the Mayans had Big Macs." - KaiYeves "Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort
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13-November-2007, 05:30 PM
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Besides. The thing is bigger, much bigger, on the inside than on the outside, and yet can rest on a variety of surfaces including unreinforced paving, cobblestones, and playground grass without deforming it.
Just imagine the thrust-to-weight ratio it's gotta have? If you can sustain enough thrust, aerodynamics become pretty much irrelevant.
__________________
And you, to whom adversity has dealt the final blow With smiling [faces] lyin' to ye' everywhere ye' go Turn to, and put out all your strength of arm and heart and brain And like the Mary Ellen Carter, rise again.
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13-November-2007, 09:03 PM
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Thanks for the Dune link. Very interesting reading.
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13-November-2007, 09:10 PM
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You have to remember that what the TARDIS looks like is not necessarily its actual shape as well since the shape is part of its cloak mechanism. It's just that the Doctor's TARDIS's cloaking device got stuck on Police Box and he's never been able to fix it (well except in one episode but it broke again.)
__________________
Howling from the Shadows It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername Apollo: The History and the Hoax Enter the World of Athran
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13-November-2007, 09:36 PM
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