The Time War was never shown on television- it all happened offstage, so to speak. The Doctor has made some references to the events in the programme but no episodes have shown the events in detail. Do you think there will eve3r be a new gallifrey?

No. I have the distinct feeling that the Doctor would not let it happen. He's got quite a good sense on what should and should not be.

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Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.

"Half of what I say is meaningless, but I say it so that the other half may reach you."

I like to think that the end of Gallifrey was necessary for the well being of the universe.
I am reminded of the Asimov book, the End of Eternity, where a time travelling civilisation eventually collapses because of too much meddling. The Universe doesn't want, or need, a world full of squabbling Time Lords. trying to direct history according to their current consensus.

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Ironically, this is probibly the exact opposite reason the Doctor often opposed Gallifrey. He was a renegade because he felt the general Time Lord rule of non-interferance was detrimental to the Universe.

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Carl Matherly

Offical Battlestar Galactica Apologist

Named Time Magazine's 2006 "Person of the Year"

They canbring back the Time Lords any time they want. Just because the Doc thinks they are gone doesn't mean they are. Remember the Timelords didn't even come into the Dr Who story until well into the 2nd Doctor and the Doc himself didn't go to Gallifrey himself until 'The Deadly Assassin'

People and things have a habit of reappearing in the Docs Universe if the writers come up with a good story.

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And sometimes even if they dont (Sontarans in The Invasion Of Time, for example...)

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"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views." The Doctor, Doctor Who: The Face of Evil.

In a time war to defeat the opponent you have to remove them from history completely. I think is what has happed to the gallifreans, the Daleks won; Gallifrey is as if it never was. The Doctor in this regard is a paradox. Now he tries to remove the Daleks from History in revenge, but cannot restore gallifrey.

This is something the cybermen never understood which is they lost their planet.

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I understand it more like the Daleks could only be eradicated by also eradicating the time lords. Some kind of cause and effect relationship there?
Only the doctor was more efficient in eradicating his own race than the Daleks, which of course opens up the possibility for more lost timelords, or Gallifrey in a parallel dimension somewhere.

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Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.

"Half of what I say is meaningless, but I say it so that the other half may reach you."

The Doctor was sent back to kill the inventor of the daleks before they were invented but he balked at eliminating the daleks from history, considering that a worse crime than any they could perform. How was gallifrey lost? Wasn't their matrix records thing corrupted from within.. it was in those weird episodes?

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Minor pedantic point - the first mention of the Time Lords was in the 2nd Doctor's very last (in-sequence) story, The War Games, and he actually went to Gallifrey himself in that story, although it was not named until later.

Or even just for the sake of it.

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Master insinuates in one episode that when the doctor refused, they sent him.
I bet someone in the BBC has that all figured out.

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Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.

"Half of what I say is meaningless, but I say it so that the other half may reach you."

Well... technically there was another Time Lord (although not called that) in the William Hartnel (First Doctor) years, The Meddling Monk

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Carl Matherly

Offical Battlestar Galactica Apologist

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And there is a Romana out there and Omega. What people are forgetting about the Timelords is they are 'Outside' of Time as was mentioned in a number of stories.

We have already had Cybermen come through from an alternate Universe and from the trailers it looks like Rose is going to do the same. When they are short of a plot I am sure the Timelords will come back.

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The Daleks had TARDIS-like time travel too (first seen in "The Chase") - maybe that is how both sides destroyed the other.
If the new show goes on long enough the Time Lords are sure to eventually come back somehow.
And Romana was outside of normal time - she's probably still around.

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In some versions of the timeline - the novels and the audios, at least - Romana has returned to normal space and become president of Gallifrey. It would be interesting if the series were to pick up on that.

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Daleks had crude time travel capability in the 'old' Doc if my memory serves me right, as did the Cybermen I think.

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I'm not a Dr Who fan (especially of the current series!) but do you think there's any chance of any special episodes, or even a film, dedicated to showing the events of the Time Wars? Like, I suppose, the way the Clone Wars mentioned in the original Star Wars were eventually shown (and shown, and shown, and shown, and..)

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I doubt it will ever happen, Lianachan. I think it's one of those things where they acknowledge that it's never going to live up to expectations.

There was talk a while back of a series of films starring Paul McGann, in which the action is immediately moved away from Earth. Which would be nice, but in the new series the travel element has been reintroduced quite well. No longer does the TARDIS flit between half a dozen locations, beginning and ending at the companion's flat. The casual diversity is very refreshing - Pompeii to alien planet to home to another alien planet to Agatha Christie's house to a particularly cool alien planet. And whereas some of the stories have been a bit lame (think Star Trek filler episode), others have been strong or fun or both.

I've mentioned before that when the most recent Doctor Who story stinks (e.g. Last of the Time Lords), it affects the whole of Doctor Who (i.e. it has always stunk, and always will) whereas a strong, engaging, confident episode (e.g. Human Nature, or the recent Silence in the Library) can make it seem as if Doctor Who has always been wonderful, and always will be.

Does anybody else feel this way?

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I don't. Haven't yet seen an episode that really stunk.
Mind, I'm a bit behind on the latest season. No spoilers!

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Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.

"Half of what I say is meaningless, but I say it so that the other half may reach you."

I was deeply board with the "Trial of a Timelord"... but since it's been 20 years since that first aired I'll give it a pass.

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Carl Matherly

Offical Battlestar Galactica Apologist

Named Time Magazine's 2006 "Person of the Year"

Oh, I was talking about the current series. I downloaded and watched Trial of a Timelord a while ago. I was bored out of my mind.
I hate "Somebody's put on trial for a made-up crime" storylines. And they sooner or later invade every series, adventure game, etc.!

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Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.

"Half of what I say is meaningless, but I say it so that the other half may reach you."

Funny, I thought "Trial of a Time Lord" was a definite improvement over the Sixth Doctor's other adventures.

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not difficult

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I'd hate to see Gallifrey restored.. sounds a bit like "jumping the shark" to me.

But with the Doctor having been cloned, all it would take to restore the Time Lord race is for the Doctor's daughter to breed. Then jump ahead in the TARDIS a million years or so and you've got an entire planet of (one-quarter, since the Doctor is half-human) Time Lords.

Why would it be 'Jumping the Shark'?
Look at the continuity jumps that have occured in the past.

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Isn't that Spock you are thinking of?

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I thought the first full Colin Baker season was very good. It had a pleasing diversity of stories and locations, and saw the Sixth Doctor fight Cybermen and Daleks, ponder the consequences of his past self being killed, fix the chameleon circuit, meet George Stephenson and H.G. Wells, visit Spain, satirise reality TV before it even existed, visit several alien planets, sabotage someone else's TARDIS, and join forces with his second incarnation and Jamie.

It had its faults but not as many as most seasons.

Whereas the Trial season looked great for the first half minute (that space station opening) then looked rubbish for the remainder. The only reason the sets didn't wobble was because there was nothing to them. The trial framewas taken up with tiresome puns; the companion died, only it turned out she wasn't really dead (even though her survival made no sense in story terms); Bonnie Langford joined; there was a stupid robot in it; it contained some of the worst astronomy combined with one of the lamest surprises ever (this devastated planet is... Earth!), and contained no end of stuff that turned out to be not real.

Are you pretending you don't remember the TV movie? If so, I can't say I blame you!

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I haven't seen the TV movie.

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I personally thought the Doctor's Daughter episode came dangerously close to jumping the shark. But I'm a bit behind on the latest season so I'll wait what comes of it.

Where was it said that the Doctor is half human?

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Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.

"Half of what I say is meaningless, but I say it so that the other half may reach you."

I only think it's a better option than restoring Gallifrey.. not necessarily a good show though. Gallifrey is gone.. erased from existence. Should be allowed to rest in peace.

In the made-for-TV movie (Doctor Who : The Movie).

I kept expecting this to pop up in the new series as it explains his interest in humanity, but doesn't look like that's ever going to happen.