RoboCop - Page 2

Damburger · #31 (**permalink**) 04-July-2008, 07:08 PM

I think that Verhovens wit won't translate. Both Robocop and Starship Troopers have had sequels which entirely missed the point.

Jason · #32 (**permalink**) 04-July-2008, 07:42 PM

Sort of the way Verhoven himself entirely missed the point of Heinlein's Starship Troopers?

zerocold · #33 (**permalink**) 05-July-2008, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason

Only the fact that they already did much of this in the sequels (or even the original film).

Robocop has already been often portrayed by puppets - either stop-motion or full-size articulated, so being CGI some of the time wouldn't be that big a change.
He had a very silly "gun arm" in Robocop 3 with a heavier gun and a flame thrower.
I guess it's personal taste as to whether Lewis was a bad sidekick, but she was a sidekick.
As for really cool vehicles, Robocop also got a (mostly silly) jetpack in Robocop 3.
All three of the movies feature an anti big-business message, and 2 featured "SPF 30,000" sun block lotion because of holes in the Ozone layer.
Robocop had his memory of his past deleted in Robocop 2, and was given so many new directives that he started acting like a robotic fruitcake, although he got better after he electrocuted himself.
Robocop 3 also featured annoyingly cute kids who idolize Robocop and are also expert computer hackers. I think there was a dog in there too somewhere.

Agreed about R3, it was one of the worst movies ever, but R2 was IMO a classic,a well done story, lovely characters (not tipical "evil guy on suit" as in R1), a lot of humor , and social sarcasm

The scene when the major tried to allude a tipical social sentimentalism...."what about the old good neighborhood!!" stuff, and then all the ppl bashing him for saying such crap...priceless

, one of the best scenes ever

Funny was that in r2, robocop preferred the risk to kill himself, than to live with "new age" directives

weatherc, u did forget something, that is .....a romantic scene with robo and his female partner

, i just hope R4 willget the same charm of R2....but i think it wont, most likely we will get a RobocopExtreme

Ronald Brak · #34 (**permalink**) 05-July-2008, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Sort of the way Verhoven himself entirely missed the point of Heinlein's Starship Troopers?

Satire requires understanding.

Jason · #35 (**permalink**) 05-July-2008, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald Brak

Satire requires understanding.

Which is exactly why Verhoven's Starship Troopers was so terrible. The guy didn't even read the book.

Ronald Brak · #36 (**permalink**) 05-July-2008, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Which is exactly why Verhoven's Starship Troopers was so terrible. The guy didn't even read the book.

Paul Verhoven was born in the Netherlands in 1938.

Jason · #37 (**permalink**) 05-July-2008, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Paul Verhoven was born in the Netherlands in 1938.

Which is exactly what I'm talking about, since Starship Troopers THE BOOK has little or nothing to do with World War II and Nazis, while the movie is all about them.

Damburger · #38 (**permalink**) 05-July-2008, 08:36 AM

OK, its obvious some people watching Starship Troopers didn't get his wit either.

The film was actually satirising the book. You might think that Heinlein has nothing to do with Nazism, but a person who lived under Nazi occupation respectfully disagrees with you.

Jason · #39 (**permalink**) 05-July-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damburger

OK, its obvious some people watching Starship Troopers didn't get his wit either.

The film was actually satirising the book. You might think that Heinlein has nothing to do with Nazism, but a person who lived under Nazi occupation respectfully disagrees with you.

That person being Verhoven? Oh dear. A hack director disagrees with me. Whatever will I do?

Damburger · #40 (**permalink**) 05-July-2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason

That person being Verhoven? Oh dear. A hack director disagrees with me. Whatever will I do?

Direct some films of your own and see if anybody, anywhere wants to watch them?

Or perhaps, you could acknowledge the man is far more talented when he is asleep than you will ever be?

Jason · #41 (**permalink**) 06-July-2008, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damburger

Or perhaps, you could acknowledge the man is far more talented when he is asleep than you will ever be?

Oh yeah, well I'm rubber and you're glue. What you say bounces off me and sticks to you. Nyah nyah nyah!

So, if we're done being juvenille, that's enough about the movie Starship Troopers.

As I said earlier, Robocop could use a good sequel/remake after the atrocities committed in its name in the sequels. I really don't see any problem with restarting the franchise ala Batman Begins.

Krel · #42 (**permalink**) 06-July-2008, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damburger

Direct some films of your own and see if anybody, anywhere wants to watch them?

Or perhaps, you could acknowledge the man is far more talented when he is asleep than you will ever be?

Considering the box office his last few movies have done, I'd say he falls under your first statement.

Verhoven has said that he refused to read the book. This movie was done by people that didn't like Heinlein and were out to do a number on Heinlein, and his politics. This is not my opinion, I attended the panel at the 96 World Con where they freely admitted that they were out to subvert the books viewpoint. In fact they were very proud of themselves that they turned down the writers that really hated Heinlein. They labored valiantly to tell you absolutely nothing about the film.

I swear they actually said this: Were are going to do the book, but change it. We are going to do his politics exactly, but subvert them! It was so bad that the authors in later panels were making fun of them.

This site explains many of the differences, and the changes they made to make Heinlein, and his politics look bad: http://www.kentaurus.com/troopers.htm

David.

Lord Jubjub · #43 (**permalink**) 06-July-2008, 02:12 AM

I saw Starship Troopers. I have NOT read the book.

Starship Troopers, the movie, was a confused mess of fascism, satiric fascism, pseudo-nazism, and gung-ho patriotism. I don't think either the writers or the director had a clear idea of any theme within the movie.

This was a good movie if you were looking for pretty explosions and gung-ho attitude. Any attempts (after the fact) by the writers or the director to elevate this material further would belong in the large pile of compost in the back of the barn.

Doodler · #44 (**permalink**) 06-July-2008, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LotusExcelle

Lets take into account the Batman "reboots". Now I think Keaton nailed the role in the first Batman movie. And of course Burton did a great job. Then of course you get into the middle mess - Val Kilmer was miscast - and the rest were written and directed by blind sloths sipping Mai Tais by a pool of algae.

The newest era of Batman is off and running as a *fantastic* reboot. Is this a bad thing? I don't think so. The first era stands on its own (sequels.... hmmm... maybe not so much). The Christian Bale series will stand on its own too, i have no doubt.

Keaton may have nailed the role, but letting Tim Burton within hailing distance of a director's chair was a horrible mistake.

ToSeek · #45 (**permalink**) 06-July-2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damburger

Direct some films of your own and see if anybody, anywhere wants to watch them?

Or perhaps, you could acknowledge the man is far more talented when he is asleep than you will ever be?

Argue the issues, not the person, please. (That goes for Jason as well.)

ToSeek
BAUT Forum Moderator

Alasdhair · #46 (**permalink**) 06-July-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krel

This site explains many of the differences, and the changes they made to make Heinlein, and his politics look bad: http://www.kentaurus.com/troopers.htm

David.

Heinlein really didn't need any help in that department.

Damburger · #47 (**permalink**) 07-July-2008, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alasdhair

Heinlein really didn't need any help in that department.

Not at all. It is surprising how many people who are otherwise individualistic and liberal have their tastes in sci-fi swing towards overt fascists like him.

LotusExcelle · #48 (**permalink**) 07-July-2008, 11:22 AM

I don't think Verhoeven is in quite the same category as a "hack". He has offered up one of the better Philip K. Dick translations (not an easy task to say the least). Beyond that the Director should not be confused with the Writer or the Producers. Very different tasks. And if you think a director has much say in what a movie ends up being look at the fight over Brazil and also look up how many directors take their names off of movies after they are filmed. ("Where the Wild Things Are" is a new example of this: photography is done but the studio doesn't like Jonze's version and so its currently in reshoots/production *ell)

What I'm getting at is that the director has little to nothing to do with the content of a movie. Rare cases are the exception.

Krel · #49 (**permalink**) 08-July-2008, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alasdhair

Heinlein really didn't need any help in that department.

Thank you for your input Mr. Verhoeven.

David.

AKONI · #50 (**permalink**) 08-July-2008, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jokergirl

There's a bunch of rumoured movies that will never make it to production...
...wasn't there a remake of Fahrenheit 451 planned, as well?

They did remake that movie.. It was called Equilibrium.