When the idea of the ISS was first proposed, it seemed like the next logical step in space exploration after the Apollo missions. However, in the last decade it seems to have lost that 'sparkle' for myriad reasons, and attention has drifted back to Mars exploration, lunar colonies, etc. Do you think that the ISS has fulfilled its mission and should be laid to rest or that there is still much we could learn/use it for?

I personally think that it was a necessary evolution for space exploration. Though it may appear to be a 'evolutionary dead end' it played a major role in promoting global cooperation, even if it has been minimized. What are your thoughts?

I think the ISS was a big waste of money. It sounds harsh, but we haven't accomplished much with it. It's not even completely built! The idea sounded great at the time, but like you say we lost track of it.

As an ex-astronaut pointed out recently (I can not remember his name) - there isn't a bright future for human space exploration. We send probes and little robots to other planets, and these nifty machines can conduct more research than whole team ever would. I don't think we will ever go space exploring like in Star Trek, because it is just ineficient. We may put a base or more with people on the moon to "uncrowd" the world, but I don't think it will be more than that. Our technology surpasses us and makes us ineffective, inefficient and inadequate.

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"He who asks is stupid for five minutes. He who doesn't will remain stupid his whole life"

Well, I think Wouty just kinda generalized a bit. Human capabilities of space exploration on our own frontier have nothing to do with sending probes into space. Rather, instead, I think the solution to this is private business. Remember the history: we went to the moon just to get there before the Russians. That goal accomplished, since the US became Master of the Skies, the gov't decided to make NASA a minor administrative branch...remember, NASA is strictly political. With private business enterprises, we'll be able to advance further, to accomplish much more. As an analogy, I think humans and humanity is/are instinctively better at freelancing than hierarchic practices, in a world like today's when those aren't completely necessary. I mean, motivation these days that sounds worthy of only a few things: Mars missions, moon mining and as you said, uncrowding the world.

StarLab makes an excellent point. We need some more healthy competition in the industry. Perhaps pressure from private companies, and of course from the developing Chinese space program will provide the competitive environment needed to get some real projects kick started.

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Is the ISS useless? No. Space stations are like pre-colonies, they are part of the steps to build a fully fledged space colony. Not to mention what we use the microgravity for; metals, medicines etc., etc. I personally believe that we should continue developing our technology in space survival before we go to another planet (for example: better engines, space colonies, fully understanding bone density loss in microgravity and being able to fully prevent it) But, what Id like to know is why send humans to Mars when we can build probes which are safer and cheaper to send. So I believe that more space colonies would benefit us more than going to Mars.

But, Bossman, while space colonies are a great idea, the ISS is not a space colony. It's a small human outpost in space that as yet has served no real purposes, even those it was intended for. The process was just too slow. Lemme modify your claim a bit: the motive was right, the setting was waaaay off. This project was proposed, and began, while NASA was not getting the press it deserved. NASA has accomplished almost nothing but probes since the Apollo-Soyuz event, and private business is the way to go. Model Rocket Camp, the new summer craze! B) Woohoo! All the way! :P :wub: ^_^

Competition would be a good idea, but do you think it is really possible? We're talking multi-million projects here. And to just conduct the research that is neccessary for these better and enhanced machines that private business would deliver, can be a billion-dollar project. Goverment space agencies aren't fixed on making a profit, and can live off the funds the goverment provides them. Private companies are on their own and should be able to make some profit, and where would they derive that profit from? Mining precious materials on other worlds? I think it is not possible to privatise space exploration.

I even doubt the Ansari X-Prize has much use. It is about bringing three human beings to a hight of 100 kilometer (62 miles), which is the edge of space. Maybe it's just the first step because we don't want people on the edge of space, we need them in space stations or on lunar bases...

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"He who asks is stupid for five minutes. He who doesn't will remain stupid his whole life"

I find myself in complete agreement with you, StarLab. NASA has fulfilled its role & now it´s time to move on! Private business is the only practical step forward if we seriously want to get off of this rock & explore the universe & spread our kind around it. For all the good things that NASA has done, it´s dependence on government funding curtails its possibilities drastically!

Look what is happening since George´s "pep talk" at the beginning of the year - the small increase he asked for is being systematically denied NASA which is having to cut back on its programmes of exploration & even George´s vision to return to the Moon & then onward to Mars is in serious jeopardy!

I was so enthused by the original proclamation of "Freedom" (as ISS was originally going to be named) that I truly believed at the time that space was about to be conquered at last & mankind was about to find his "space legs". I lived in Spain at the time & I still remember how the Sunday papers´supplements were full of high hopes & enthusiasm for the future of Man in space, full of glossy photos of the proposed Space Station "Freedom".

How cruel is reality - we have been brought down to Earth (in the most literal sense!) & our dreams have been dashed! It´s very hard not to be sceptical every time we hear of a grandiose proclamation about our return to space - more than just taking things with a pinch of salt we´ll be taking them with a whole fistful if there isn´t some radical turn around in the next few years!

I´m all for competition - be it with the Indians or the Chinese or private enterprise! But I think the governments involved with their respective "Space Agencies" should give their "official" backing/blessing to space enterprise & actively encourage the private, commercial sector - it´s the only way forward!

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But we want competition, not military involvement. <_<

To summarize what I said in an earlier post: What companies would be crazy enough to put millions of dollars in projects that will most probably not raise profit? A version of the Beagle-2-syndrome would close the doors of that company right away.

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&quot;He who asks is stupid for five minutes. He who doesn't will remain stupid his whole life&quot;

In order for private companies to take over, they would have to have a reason to.

I don't think human space travel is necessarily about exploration, it is more about colonization. The ISS could never have become a space colony because it has no resources to live off of or build from. It is just hanging in the middle of nowhere. A base on the moon would have materials to use. The thing missing from all of this, of course, is a monetary purpose. Private companies won't do anything if they can't envision profiting from it. Resources are too abundant and cheap here on earth to go into space for them. Space tourism may do something for it, but I think tourist companies would quickly burn through the population of prospective tourists (people willing to pay the launch costs, not merely those who think it would be cool) and fizzle out with the novelty.
Since 90% of the cost of a rocket is development costs, if we had a reason to want 30 times the current demanded launch capacity, space travel would be about ten times cheaper. But the reason has to exist.

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In addition to what ASEI said, private business can profit from lunar expenditures with claims. In other words, the moon actually has stuff that we can use to our advantage. The moon is something new; the ISS is just an office building in space. Boring. <_<

I never said ISS was a space colony or even meant to be one- I just meant it's a crucial stage in creating fully fledged space colonies. Its like when North America was colonized- we start with little, temporary settlements (ISS) and end up with the U.S. (space colonies). I think when space stations have artificial gravity we can call them space stations (without that, well never have a true permanent space colony.)

I don't think private business can claim parts of the moon or other celestial objects.

http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/5181.htm

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Well, if that legal barrier isn't surmounted, we will never colonize space. Without being allowed to use or own anything in space, how do you expect people to one day live there?

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Well, how about at least mining, Tinaa?

Alright, let's brainstorm: if the world scraps the ISS mission, what could we accomplish in the next decade and a half instead?

Mining? Mars colony? Moon colony? Suborbital colony?

Starlab you act like I'm the one limiting activities on the moon. I am a full fledged capitalist. I believe the only way to colonize other worlds is to prove there is money to be made. With our (the USA's) record of military excursions, other countries may take exception with us setting up housekeeping on the moon by ourselves. Can't really blame them, in a way. We'll just have to show that the company is working for the betterment of all humankind.

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What ideas do you have that would make money in space? Anything new, besides tourism?

Not much. It will take a few decades for civilian companies to pick back up and attempt access to space again. There would have to be something to do. Lunar colonies would make a lot of sense, because there are materials there to build and run the colony off of. The big thing missing is the purpose of the colony. What will bring in the $$$? It would have to be some benifit returned to those funding the company to repay them for paying to launch the colony.
Mars is a lot farther away. It may be chemically/energetically less expensive to live there, but if you're flinging colonists and equipment into space, you'll be expending monumental amounts of energy anyway.

I was wondering if large scale vacuum type processes, like fabricating huge whopping sheets of carbon-fiber composites would be possible. After all, on earth you have to suck the air out of an autoclave to generate the pieces. There would have to be enough demand.

If there are ways of mining on the moon which would be illegal on the earth, like nuking huge volcanoes in the crust to draw out liquid minerals or something, maybe it could produce enough rare metal/ material to send back to earth.

If there is anything that involves either vacuum or zero gravity in the manufacturing process, then space can help. Do you have any ideas on such products?

Perhaps government would have to put in the initial funding to get a moon base started. Then, companies could set up shop using the moonbase infastructure, generate and return materials to earth, and then the demand for such materials would catch on. People have to know it, and know that they will be able to get it, to want it.

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What if there was a big deposit of gold on Mars? Bigger than the Gold Rush? (if I remember it right, that doubled the worlds gold supply) Would that be enough reason for some people to go? And not only gold, any other precious metals or minerals you can think of.Just an idea, seeings how a lot of people and a lot more animals died for it before (granted, many of them didnt know what they were doing....)

How much per Troy ounce does it cost to transport material from Mars to Earth?
How many tons of equipment have to get sent to Mars to get the Gold operation going [mining, smelting, launching, etc].

I don't think Gold is valuable enough to justify such a mission, even if the Martian Volcanos are pure Gold underneath a dusting of basalt.

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what about platinum??

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Why mine Mars when we can mine the Moon? Besides, there's more practical stuff to be found on the moon, anyhew; and, it's closer.