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Old 09-May-2006, 08:55 AM
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Default Asteroid impact probablity question

I have an idea for a short story that I've been kicking around for years now, but I'm not sure how plausible it is.

Would it pe possible for an asteroid to 'sneak up on us' by making it's aproach from the other side of the Sun, so that it remains undetectable until it is seen transiting the Sun a day or so before a possible impact?

Basically, the observer in the story is looking at the Sun through a scope and sees a sunspot with no penumbra. He takes a few pictures and goes in the house to see what it could be. A few hours later, the object is still there. Taking another picture shows that it has increased in size slightly. Over the next few hours it is realized that whatever the object is, it's moving almost directly from the Sun toward the Earth. If the whole story is to play out over a span of about 36 hours, how big would the asteroid have to be, and how far away would it be 36 hours before impact? Would that make it large enough to see with a 5 inch scope?
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Old 09-May-2006, 10:09 AM
Jeff Root Jeff Root is offline
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I think it's extremely unlikely that the object would remain on
the line between the Sun and the observer for more than a few
hours. On the order of one hour is most plausible. It would
slowly drift across the face of the Sun, and a change in speed
might even be noticeable over the course of an hour. It might
appear to be motionless for several minutes, then drift faster
and faster across the Sun until it disappears at the limb. That
would be a possible result of the orbits of the object and Earth,
Earth's rotation, and the object's acceleration toward Earth.
The closer it is, the less time it will likey appear to stand still.

It would be interesting to know whether any geosynchronous
satellites are large enough to be seen silhouetted against the
Sun with a small scope.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis
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Old 09-May-2006, 11:41 AM
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You could imagine some previously unknown asteroid getting kicked out of an orbit between Mercury and Venus into an orbit that sends it in our direction, so that it is silhoueted against the sun for a few hours just before impacting us. You'll need to try some solar system simulators to tell just how long it might appear as a spot.
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Old 09-May-2006, 01:56 PM
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Have you considered a "long period asteriod" in a highly eccentric (very thin ellipse) orbit with perihelion near Earth, very low albedo (a stealthy bloke), and that takes a few weeks between the two sun grazing (few hundredths of an AU) points of its orbit during approach and exit from perihelion?
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Old 09-May-2006, 02:53 PM
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Well, the more detailed the orbital requirements for this particular "stealth asteroid" are, the more unlikely it is to exist in the first place, right?
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Old 09-May-2006, 03:07 PM
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Whew! Stealth asteroid nearly blindsides Earth

Quote:
A sizable asteroid zipped near our planet this month without anyone noticing because it traveled through an astronomical blind spot, scientists said.

The space boulder passed Earth within 288,000 miles (461,000 kilometers) -- or 1.2 times the distance to the moon -- on March 8, but since it came from the direction of the sun, scientists did not observe it until four days later.
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Old 09-May-2006, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bynaus
Well, the more detailed the orbital requirements for this particular "stealth asteroid" are, the more unlikely it is to exist in the first place, right?
That's not too important in this case. The OP is discussing something for a work of fiction, in which he's looking for possible and unlikely, not probable.
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Old 09-May-2006, 05:28 PM
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Thanks, ToSeek. Looks like the premise is plausible.

If this were to be on the same orbital plane as the Earth, any way for a claculus dreprived person to figure the speed from 36 hours out? Would 50,000 KPH be reasonable for an average?
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Old 09-May-2006, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog_
Thanks, ToSeek. Looks like the premise is plausible.

If this were to be on the same orbital plane as the Earth, any way for a claculus dreprived person to figure the speed from 36 hours out? Would 50,000 KPH be reasonable for an average?
If you put in an out-of-range value for an Earth impact, this site says:

Quote:
The highest impact velocity between a planet and an asteroid/comet bound to the Solar System occurs when the objects meet in a head-on collision. The speeds of both objects as well as the strength of the planet's gravity set the upper speed limit. Impact speeds for Earth range from 11.2 km/s to 72.8 km/s.
50,000 kph is about 14 km/s, so it's within the range but toward the low end. (I would think lower values would be more likely than higher ones, though.)
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Old 10-May-2006, 02:30 AM
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The problem with the asteroid being stationary in front of the Sun is that such an orbit would make the asteroid spend a good part of its orbit beyond Earth's orbit, where prior detection would have been likely. (Think about where the asteroid would be headed if it didn't collide with Earth.) Unless of course its a small asteroid, but I bet you want a big one for your story

Here's some screen shots for you.
__________________________________
Here's an asteroid that spends almost its entire orbit interior to Earth's orbit. It would be very difficult to detect as it is usually lost in the Sun's glare.


Yellow: Sun; Gray: Mercury; White: Venus; Blue/Gray: Earth; Red: Mars; Green: asteroid
__________________________________
Here's an Earth-centered diagram of the orbits. Notice how the asteroid spends much of its final months almost lined-up with the Sun.

Yellow: Sun; Gray: Mercury; White: Venus; Blue: Earth; Green: asteroid
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The asteroid remains lost in the solar glare in the hours and days prior to impact. Then, minutes before impact, it crosses the solar disk. This is the only warning we will get, and probably the best hopes of someone with a 5 inch telescope making the discovery, beating out SOHO and the professional observatories, who probably won't analyze their data until much later, and beating out hundreds of other amateurs who got a solar filter for Christmas and happen to be using it for the few minutes it takes the asteroid to cross the solar disk.

Gray: Moon; Blue: Earth; Green: asteroid
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Here's an alternate impact scenerio. The asteroid doesn't cross the solar disk. It is first observed by probably thousands of people as a slow-moving, but bright satellite in the pre-dawn sky. It resolves into a shape minutes before impacting the dark side of the globe.

Gray: Moon; Blue: Earth; Green: asteroid
__________________________________

But if you do want it to hover motionless in front of the Sun for a few hours, and you're not concerned about the low probability of that actually happening, here's your impact trajectory.

Gray: Moon; Blue: Earth; Green: asteroid
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And here's a view of the asteroid's solar orbit prior to impact.

Yellow: Sun; Gray: Mercury; White: Venus; Blue/Gray: Earth; Red: Mars; Green: asteroid
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Old 10-May-2006, 12:11 PM
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The way to think of these "blindsiding" asteroids is that they are actually on orbits very similar to Earth's orbit, but with a slightly different eccentricity than Earth's. As they are moving at virtually the same speed as the Earth, they don't overtake us, they drift out from the Sun or in from that antisolar point. But tony873004's point is that they alternate between these approaches, so if this one is from the Sun, the last one was from the antiSun and would have been seen. Note the period of these passes is 1 year.
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