Hi all,

Just wondered. In some Mayan circles they seem to beleive that the Sun will align with Galactic centre. By the way I dont beleive it and the point of this thread is not to have an argument about that.

What I want to know is how could we know when the Sun is in alignment with the centre? It's impossible to know isnt it? We don't know exactly where we are in the Galaxy. I heard heard some poeple argue that it won't be in alignment to it and it would be on a different date. I just want to know how on Earth we would know? It's impossible isnt it? May I reitierate I want to know how we would know we are in alignment. I want nothing to do with 2012 end of world woo woo rubbish. Cheers

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"Attack the idea, not the person" Posted by a Moderator.
Useful words around here indeed!!

It's been a remarkably long time since the last 2012 inquiry. Your answer may be among the below (probably, but maybe not; the purpose of this article is mostly list maintenance):

How can the sun be aligned with Galactic centre?
Any truth to this?
2012?
Earth's Magnetic Field & 2012 Plane of the ecliptic of the galaxy?
Galactic Tsunami?
So what will we see in 2012?
2012: What do you think well happen (if anything)
Horizon Project-New End of World Scare?
Pole shift idea origins
2003 no, 2012 si
2012
Pole shift / Planetary alignment 2012?
2012 alignment question
about the Mayan 2012 item
2012 Debunking?
Possible asteroid impact in 2012?
2012 asteroid?
We don't have to worry about 2012!
More on 2012 from India Daily
2012 Completion of conspiracy?
Here's what's REALLY going to happen in 2012...
crop circles, Planet X and 2012
Planet X, crop circles and 2012 cataclysma
According to the Mayans, what will happen on 23rd Dec. 2012?
More 2012 Nonsense
NEO 2012?
Dangerous NEO in 2012?
Christmas 2012
2012 mayan calender end of world
Regarding the supposed polar shift/new ice age in 2012
New 2012 threat?
2012 look at this thing on the sun
Russian Expert Predicts Global Cooling from 2012
Dec 20 2012
2012 Stuff
Date: December 21st 2012
Earth passing thru Galactic center in 2012 - didn't that already happen?
2012: What do you think well happen (if anything)

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Perhaps this site will help explain one possible view of the alignment. It is easily verifiable and I will do it since the fate of all physics is at stake, according the them, but right now an even more pressing matter is at hand: grilling hot dogs.

[Oops, I wish I would have seen the prior post before posting.]

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

No, that's nice. Maybe he won't have to search so much.

I think the OP question needs some refinement, for the Sun (or Sun's center) and the Galactic Center, being two points, are always aligned. The question needs an enhanced definition of "alignment" before it gets interesting.

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Well, we know in what direction the center is, and we know what direction the sun is(of course), so knowing that we have an alignment would be as simple as observing that the sun is in front of the part of the sky where the center is located(or that the sun and the center is on opposite sides of the earth), and since we know the movements of the sun and the earth, I expect it would be possible to calculate when in 2012, if at all, such an alignment would happen, but sadly, I am not up to the maths...

I assume they mean that the earth is involved in the alignment, after all, any two objects will always be in line and so, you need a third object to make an alignment...

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Game over, you lose, we hope you enjoyed playing the exciting game of Thermodynamics...

I alread said I don't beleive in it so you didnt need to post all that stuff you post for the newbies when they ask about 2012. Only link relevant there was the first one!

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"Attack the idea, not the person" Posted by a Moderator.
Useful words around here indeed!!

Did you find your answer in there? It wasn't to convince you of anything. It was to provide you with discussions that had probably already answered the question you asked. Don't be offended.

(And, as I explained, it was also to carry on the list maintenance. This topic belongs in the list because I was sure it was going to generate more 2012 discussion and it did.)

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We know pretty precisely where the centre of the galaxy is in the sky, because the central black hole is a radio source. We also have a galactic coordinate system in the sky, with zero longitude aligned with the galactic centre (though not precisely with the Sgr A* black hole).
It so happens that the sun passes through that part of the sky around December 21 every year. In 2012 it isn't aligned with either the galactic coordinate system or the black hole, but it's close to them. It's closer to them in other years.

Grant Hutchison

Isn't the sun always "aligned" with the center of the MW? Is your question: "when will a line connecting the center of the sun and the center of the Earth, when extended toward the MW center, actually pass through the MW center?"?

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For those inclined to oppose human meddling with the structure of the universe or the composition and configuration of objects and groups of objects within the universe, consider:
Whether there is a limit to the magnitude of a modulation of chaos below which order remains invariant? Or, is order but a fiction invented by perspectives applied over finite, however large, time intervals?

If it's Z. Reti 2, i'm getting a tin foil hat.

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All moderations in purple.

You ain't nobody 'til you've been banned.

So the question changes... we now want to know when a alignment of the Earth sun and our galactic center? No that is the original question, just said differently. The answer has been provided in respect that during December of each year the sun passes between us and the galactic core. I seem to recall that Sol and the Galactic plain do not actually align to well as progression has us some distance from the galactic plain at this time. I do not know the period of the Suns track above or below the galactic plain. I suspect we are talking of things in tens of thousands of years. Best I go look this up a...?

More Fuel More Fire... 2012 is one thing happening one way or another thru the stars (awe)"look at it, it's big it's going to kill us" (the confusion) Perfect grammer,puncuation, desiveness, loaded sysmptons, button pushing belittlers causing da conflict in pub forms. Then on the sidelines of "white flags" haha. Other things coinside, like Nikola Telsa free energy rejection and retrospecting where we are now and going towards. but yeaa the point is wake up WORLD,this means you. if you read this far do something, stop searching. [comment removed] . ever play fall out 3? its awesome... Where is the imagination to think anymore these days. Atleast go out shooting

More Fuel More Fire. Angular Moment that which all Things and ideas spin from. Geometric physics is perfect giving the right source of energy. E=MC sq.
Unimagiable but still lyrically sensed. We wubbled, yes? Spin a top, or levitron. Now, EMP happen in the cosmos or the universe or whatever. All types of enormious star of special dynamics and properties. We as man can trust one thing in this question, Fire. Most uncontrollable thing to ever tame. We watch it dim, we feed it, the sun will show us when, egypt did,we are here, sumers did, we are still here, maiyans incas, GREAT ADVANCE ANCIENT DEAD CIVILATIONS. who love the stars as much as we do. Who knew, if not as much, more than we know now. I say this cause they have more interst in SOL, than we do;even though we are sending a probe to it the point is make a graph of its yearly (or monthly) activities sence we've started monitoring the sun. Your answer could be there. lol, I don't know if there is an up or down sence to space. But I do know it's all energy and all energies flow in frequencies. Maybe, if I hum just right I'll turn into a beam of light and can fold space.

this giant record player has it all from water to fire to fluffy weird **** and tons and tons and tons of? PREASSURE and polarity and gravitational extremes, wow! I am kinda happy we are like a spec to this CD of destruction, it will be like a drunk driving accident someone dies and its never the driver. So, relax and enjoy the ride. It will be satan,right? we are still here, now. It's probably better that than the eye of light sucking bit by bit defragmenting us yuck id'be scary.

Looks like some pharmacist didn't check for drug interactions before filling. How negligent.

RalofTyr...doesn't that have to be zirconium foil to handle all the radiation?

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A third rate theory forbids.
A second rate theory explains after the fact.
A first rate theory predicts.
A. Lomonosov

As mentioned, what do you (or they) mean by "alignment"? Any two points are always in a line....

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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

I just gave a Xmas seminar at work about "the end of the world" and ofcourse 2012, planet X and galactic alignment.

This means that at the winter equinox point the sun is projected on the center of the galaxy. However, Jean Meeus, in Mathematical Astronomy Morsels (1997 see book review in Sky & Telescope, and see also here) showed that this has already occurred in 1998!! So much for the 2012 stuff.

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“A good scientist has freed himself of concepts and keeps his mind open to what is”
道德經, 二十七 (dào dé jīng, 27)

dirty_g posted this in 2007 and didn't resurrect this thread, so I don't we can expect a response from him.

@ PrestonED - Hi, welcome to BAUT. By the way, what the heck are you talking about?

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One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

I was reading PrestonEd's posts with my head tilting side to side (like a dog) and than I read this... I think I got whiplash. Hilarious.

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Wait Wait Wait Wait...

hold on here..
what about this?
http://www.astro.ncu.edu.tw/~wchen/P...e%20Galaxy.pdf

does this mean that the solar system moves in and out through the galactic plane as it orbits?

does this mean that at some point, the sun is on the same plane as the galactic center which means that it would be aligned?

the OP did say
and the article i am referencing shows that there is indeed a progression of the solar system through the galactic plane.

and here too, this article suggests that the solar system is oscillating up and down as it orbits the galaxy.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal.../317338a0.html
this article also suggest the same thing:
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog...s-secret-.html
and even our own Grant Hutchison suggests that there is a oscillation through the galactic plane
http://www.bautforum.com/questions-a...le-galaxy.html
post 4
and here

post 7
he was only asking how we could know this information,
i am interested too.



or is all of this against mainstream hogwash?

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-work in progress--

Yes. Although the local mass distribution isn't well enough known to define the plane exactly, or to say exactly when we'll pass through it again. But it's something on the order of 60 million years from now.

The sun is always in some "same plane" as the galactic centre. In fact, it's always in an infinite number of "same planes" as the galactic centre, since it's always possible to draw an infinite number of planes through any two points.

The "2012 alignment" is indeed hogwash.

Grant Hutchison

Its 3 points. Earth, Sun, and galactic centre in a straight line. Or Sun, Earth and core if you prefer. I have no clue if any significance is attached to the order by the proponents.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

oh and also great significance is attached to crossing the galactic plane, an event which occurs every several million of years if memory serves. Why? Beats me.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

ha!
i dont think that the 2012 thing is relevant here, but as for a question about alignment, if you were to look at the galaxy from the side on with the galactic plane running horizontal and the center of the galaxy in the center of the picture, and say the solar system is on the right coming toward us in its orbit, the suns north should be pointing up and aligned with the north side of the galaxy. if you imagine two points of reference on the suns equator, one on the right and one on the left and draw a line between the two points the line will intersect the exact galactic center only twice per oscillation.

is that called an Ecliptic Plane?

so when the solar system is inthe center of the galactic plane, then it would be aligned.

is this what is what is meant by solar alignment with the galactic plane?

thanks

also how do we know this information?

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-work in progress--

there are several articles that correlate the dinosaurs extinction and the progression of the earth through the galactic plane.

"Galactic Drift Causes Mass Extinction!" sounds like a Fox news headline.

i wonder if there is a correlation, even some folks at Harvard seem to think so.
hmmm

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1984Natur.308..712S
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-dts050208.php
http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=1378
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog...ysmic-clo.html

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-work in progress--

It isn't. The galactic centre is (very roughly) in the ecliptic plane now. By the time the sun descends through the galactic plane, we'll have moved well around the galaxy, and the rough alignment between galactic centre and ecliptic will have been lost.

We have an estimate of the sun's galactic orbit because we know its velocity relative to the surrounding stars, and we have an estimate of the mass distribution of the galaxy. That lets us plot an approximate orbit.

Grant Hutchison

Oh, criminy....

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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

"The Sun and planets move in a quasi-elliptical orbit between about 8.4 and 9.7 kpc from the galactic center, with a period of revolution of about 240 million years. The solar system Is currently close to and moving inward toward "perigalacticon," the point in the orbit closest to the galactic center. In addition, the solar system moves perpendicular to the galactic plane in a harmonic fashion, with a period of 52 to 74 million years and an amplitude of ~49 to 93 pc out of the galactic plane."

I don't think any of this is new or surprising to more advanced students of the galaxy. And the error bars in the harmonic component of the Sun's orbit are so large, one could fit any number of mass extinctions into such a broadly defined periodicity. BTW, Raup and Sepkoski discovered the periodicity of mass extinctions, and they hypothesized that another star or a 'companion' star to the Sun periodically sweeps through its nearest orbit and perturbs our system's Oort cloud, resulting in more Earth-orbit-crossing comets and asteroids. Such a "Nemesis" star has been searched for, but at this point, its existence may have been ruled out (since there is no star in the neighborhood with such orbital characteristics).

A rough galactic correlation is interesting, but correlation does not mean causation. I'd like to hear a plausible explanation of the mechanism of how galactic dynamics could cause terrestrial periodic mass extinctions before I check ebay for zirconium foil hats...

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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

Zirconium foil in a variety of thicknesses. You'll have to make your own hat.

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple