Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > Science and Space > Space/Astronomy Questions and Answers
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

   

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 31-August-2007, 07:36 AM
hush36 hush36 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 78
Default Time

I've had a thought. Here's my logic :

1) Electromagnetic radiation (in its visible form, light) is a conveyor of energy.
2) Light travels at light speed and therefore is not subject to Time.
3) In the space-time universe, it can be said that a photon "travels" (to stay simple) solely through the spatial dimensions of it.

Ok, here's the question. What if there was another conveyor of energy, similar to electromagnetic radiation, but one that "travels" (again, to stay simple) solely through the Time dimension ? What characteristics would such a conveyor have ?

a) It would have a counterpart photon, that I call a "non-photon".
b) A non-photon would "travel" solely through time
c) Interactions between the photon and the non-photon would be a form of energy that has one "foot" in the spatial dimensions and the other in the Time dimension.
d) A photon/non-photon particle does not run into the space-time "issues" that a normal photon does (meaning that a photon, not being subject to time, can be considered as being in all places in zero time - clearly a problem). This particle of energy would be linked to Time through its non-photon manifestation.

Ok, I might have lost it here but anyway, any thoughts ?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 31-August-2007, 08:47 AM
Tog_'s Avatar
Tog_ Tog_ is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Northern Utah
Posts: 3,737
Default

Speaking strictly from a layman's point of view here. My understanding is that the photon exists only in Zero Time from its own point of view. A photon that leaves the Sun, hits Jupiter and passes through my telescope takes about an hour to make the trip, as I perceive time. When I look at Jupiter, I'm looking at where it was 30 minutes ago because light takes time to reach me.

As for the property of the non-photon existing only in time I'm not sure it would even matter what it's properties might be. If there is no spatial component to it, it doesn't seem that it could affect any bit of real matter. If it could it would affect all matter throughout all time which seems like it would have to have a nearly infinite energy capacity, or that the effect is so small it would go completely undetected.

Again, this is purely from a layman's view, so it may be totally off base. See below for any corrections and better explanations.
__________________
I'm not evil.
An evil person would do the things I think up.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 31-August-2007, 09:49 AM
mugaliens's Avatar
mugaliens mugaliens is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 12,574
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hush36 View Post
I've had a thought. Here's my logic :

1) Electromagnetic radiation (in its visible form, light) is a conveyor of energy.
Technically, it's pure energy that's no longer bound by a mass.

Quote:
2) Light travels at light speed and therefore is not subject to Time.
True.

Quote:
3) In the space-time universe, it can be said that a photon "travels" (to stay simple) solely through the spatial dimensions of it.
True, in that the photon experiences no passage of time. The universe continues to age around it during it's passage.

Quote:
Ok, here's the question. What if there was another conveyor of energy, similar to electromagnetic radiation, but one that "travels" (again, to stay simple) solely through the Time dimension ? What characteristics would such a conveyor have ?

a) It would have a counterpart photon, that I call a "non-photon".
b) A non-photon would "travel" solely through time
c) Interactions between the photon and the non-photon would be a form of energy that has one "foot" in the spatial dimensions and the other in the Time dimension.
d) A photon/non-photon particle does not run into the space-time "issues" that a normal photon does (meaning that a photon, not being subject to time, can be considered as being in all places in zero time - clearly a problem). This particle of energy would be linked to Time through its non-photon manifestation.

Ok, I might have lost it here but anyway, any thoughts ?
Actually, no, I don't think you've lost it. Sounds cool, and is the stuff of Heinlein and Niven. But I like your thinking.

Ok:

Photon - goes the distance without the time.

Non-Photon - goes the time without the distance. (doesn't get out much, does he?)

Without getting into frame-dragging, I'd say, off-hand, that what we're talking about is a graviton, which may be the fundamental nature of space (just space, not time).

Here's some other postulates: Mass warps this graviton framework.

And I think this is new, because to date, all mention of gravitons was that they travelled at the speed of light.

What if, they didn't travel at all, but were locked together in some sort of lattice? Ordinary matter could travel through it with no issues, as can photons, neutrinos, etc., but that the presence of all matter warps the lattice?

You've got me thinking, here, and that's dangerous...
__________________
If I set the budget, we'd have Ares and more. Unfortunately, I don't set the budget, and Ares is just too expensive and too far out for us to accomplish our goals within the budget we were given.

If we halt the ISS, all versions of Ares, and transport Orion and Altair aboard DIRECTv3's Jupiter family of Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles, we just might make it back to the Moon by 2020.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 31-August-2007, 10:53 AM
hush36 hush36 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 78
Default

Mugaliens, I was thinking along same lines but... they do travel only in different ways.

The photon part of the particle travels through space, its non-photon counterpart travels though time. Together they form an energy that flows through space-time.

I think I'm trying to say that the photon/non-photon are "two sides of the same coin" and cannot be thought of as "separate" entities.

I look forward to your feedback
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 31-August-2007, 12:49 PM
mugaliens's Avatar
mugaliens mugaliens is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 12,574
Default

As your question was about time, I began a thread on what that non-photon might be, here.
__________________
If I set the budget, we'd have Ares and more. Unfortunately, I don't set the budget, and Ares is just too expensive and too far out for us to accomplish our goals within the budget we were given.

If we halt the ISS, all versions of Ares, and transport Orion and Altair aboard DIRECTv3's Jupiter family of Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles, we just might make it back to the Moon by 2020.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 31-August-2007, 09:41 PM
Ken G's Avatar
Ken G Ken G is offline
Order of Kilopi
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 12,730
Default

News flash guys: the "non-photon" is you. Or indeed, any observer. As soon as you take the perspective of an observer, you are always moving entirely through time, and you are doing so at the "speed of light". That is because every observation you make is done whereever you are-- same place as you, different time. Your movement is all through time. Indeed, I view time as the fundamental variable that we can measure, distance is more a kind of high-level conceptualization to make sense of what we see.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GR and the Universe RussT Against the Mainstream 32 05-November-2006 11:58 AM
Time Dilation madman Against the Mainstream 153 22-December-2005 12:30 AM
Presentation Of New Launch Method yavuzbasturk Space Exploration 16 17-August-2005 12:03 AM
Measuring time snowflakeuniverse Against the Mainstream 7 25-June-2004 12:25 PM
Big Bang logically impossible ToSeek Against the Mainstream 90 02-December-2002 01:24 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.0.0
©  2006 Bad Astronomy and Universe Today