Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > Science and Space > Space/Astronomy Questions and Answers
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

   

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-November-2007, 05:00 PM
IsaacKuo's Avatar
IsaacKuo IsaacKuo is offline
Established Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,487
Default Density/Composition of Martian atmospheric dust?

How much dust is in Mars's atmosphere at ground level, and what's it made of?

I was thinking about the problems of fully automated robotic mining, and it occured to me that mining is a lot simpler if you don't have to move anywhere. For example, it's possible to mine the Martian atmsophere for carbon dioxide and water vapor just by pumping in the air and filtering out what you want.

Of course, there's the problem of dust, so you'll need to filter out the dust...

And that's when I had an "aha" moment. Why not mine the Martian atmosphere for dust? You could have a circular filter which constantly rotates past fixed "wiper blades". Accumulated dust falls from the wiper blades into a tube for processing.

Compared to a scooping robot, this mining robot doesn't need to move anywhere. It just sits and lets the dust come to it.

How much dust is available? Obviously, it will be different in a dust storm vs a calm day.

What is the dust made out of?

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2007, 12:35 PM
IsaacKuo's Avatar
IsaacKuo IsaacKuo is offline
Established Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,487
Default

To answer my own question:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten.../278/5344/1768

It seems that most Martian dust particles are magnetic, so they can be sifted out of the air with magnetic collectors. The particles are under 2 microns in size, with a density between 1 to 10 particles per cc.

Assuming 1 micron cubed per cc, the density is about 1E-12. So, let's assume a 1 square meter collection array with a fans sucking air through the grid at 30m/s. This translates to about a billion cubic meters of air per year. There's about a thousand cubic centimeters of dust per year in that air.

So, it seems like this is an interesting idea, but mining the Martian atmosphere for dust yields too little dust for it to be workable.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2007, 12:41 PM
antoniseb's Avatar
antoniseb antoniseb is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Berlin MA
Posts: 16,034
Default

I was aware that the amount of Martian dust was pretty thin, but didn't have the specifics at my finger tips. Nice job looking it up.
__________________
Forming opinions as we speak
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2007, 01:22 PM
loglo's Avatar
loglo loglo is offline
Established Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sydney,AU
Posts: 885
Default

Hmm so sitting still doesn't work because the dust is too thin, but moving around doesn't work because the dust is too thick. I always thought dust would be what got a Mars expedition.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2007, 01:24 PM
antoniseb's Avatar
antoniseb antoniseb is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Berlin MA
Posts: 16,034
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by loglo View Post
moving around doesn't work because the dust is too thick.
The problem with the rovers and dust is not how thick it is, but how opaque it is.
__________________
Forming opinions as we speak
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2007, 01:32 PM
neilzero neilzero is offline
Established Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,249
Default

There may yet be some hope for your idea. According to the arcticle, particles larger than 2 micrometers are rarely sufficiently magnetic to be held by the magnet. Even below two micrometers, up to 99% of the particles may be non magnetic. This still is a low yield, however dust storms occur a few days per Mars year; a fan would not be needed and the dust particles would be larger and more numerous, yielding perhaps a ton per year, with little or no fan energy required. Best of all passive sorting might yeild a high concentration of one or more useful kinds of dust. Neil
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2007, 04:15 PM
loglo's Avatar
loglo loglo is offline
Established Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sydney,AU
Posts: 885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniseb View Post
The problem with the rovers and dust is not how thick it is, but how opaque it is.
Sorry.. there go my off the cuff remarks again.... what I meant was in the context of the OP if the dust is too hard on moving machinery /parts .. yadda ..yadda..
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-November-2007, 11:12 AM
Sean Clayden's Avatar
Sean Clayden Sean Clayden is offline
Established Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,094
Default

What is maximum density ? And at what point will this start to create its own energy and create a star ?
__________________
Thank God for magnetism.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dust Obscured Martian Landscape Fraser Universe Today Story Comments 0 07-September-2005 04:52 AM
Don't Breathe the Moon Dust Fraser Universe Today Story Comments 0 07-September-2005 04:30 AM
Martian Dust Devils GOURDHEAD Space Exploration 1 17-August-2005 05:34 AM
Discussion: Martian Dust Devils Will Plague ... Fraser Universe Today Story Comments 9 19-July-2005 01:26 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.0.0
©  2006 Bad Astronomy and Universe Today