Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > Science and Space > Space/Astronomy Questions and Answers
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

   

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-March-2008, 10:07 PM
mavA's Avatar
mavA mavA is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4
Default Andromeda

Hi,
It is said that the milky way, and the Andromeda galaxy are going to collide.
I have a few questions about this:
-How do you measure the distance to a deep sky object with an amateur telescope: we could use standard candles such as Cepheid s, but is it possible for us to make out individual stars with an 8" or 10"?

By anallising spectra and using the Doppler shift, we can know the acceleration of the andromeda galaxy towards us.
How can we measure it's mass?
Then how do we predict whether or not a collision is going to take place?
Also how do we know when the collision is going to take place?
According to newton's law of gravity the acceleration of Andromeda towards us will be increasing as the galaxy is getting near us.
But how do we know how the collision will work out?
For instance if both Andromeda and the milky way were orbiting a common center of mass, we could still see Andromeda "approaching us". How do we know that this is not the case?

(sorry for the bad english!!)
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-March-2008, 12:16 AM
Hornblower's Avatar
Hornblower Hornblower is offline
Established Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Falls Church, VA (near Washington, DC)
Posts: 1,769
Default

First things first. Your English is very good. Keep up the good work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mavA View Post
Hi,
It is said that the milky way, and the Andromeda galaxy are going to collide.
I have a few questions about this:
-How do you measure the distance to a deep sky object with an amateur telescope: we could use standard candles such as Cepheid s, but is it possible for us to make out individual stars with an 8" or 10"?
I don't think we could see individual Cepheids with a scope that size, let alone get good light curves. The work is done photographically with much larger telescopes.
Quote:
By anallising spectra and using the Doppler shift, we can know the acceleration of the andromeda galaxy towards us.
How can we measure it's mass?
We observe the Doppler shift on stars in different parts of the galaxy to estimate their orbital velocities around the center, and calculate the mass needed to account for that motion gravitationally.
Quote:
Then how do we predict whether or not a collision is going to take place?
Also how do we know when the collision is going to take place?
According to newton's law of gravity the acceleration of Andromeda towards us will be increasing as the galaxy is getting near us.
But how do we know how the collision will work out?
For instance if both Andromeda and the milky way were orbiting a common center of mass, we could still see Andromeda "approaching us". How do we know that this is not the case?

(sorry for the bad english!!)
We can tell from the average Doppler shift that M31 already is approaching us, and once we estimate the masses of the two galaxies we can calculate the acceleration, and thus estimate the time needed to bring them together. Minimum separation, and possibly a collision, should be between 3 and 5 billion years from now.

The hard part is in estimating the transverse velocity, if any, because the motion is too slow to see with present technology. The experts are hoping to measure it within the next couple of decades. In the meantime they are doing computer simulations which predict an eventual merger even if they miss the first time around.

I don't understand your last question. Like any other pair of massive moving objects in close proximity, they are orbiting a common center of mass. The orbital dynamics experts have concluded that the minimum separation will be relatively small even if the transverse velocity is the most it likely can be considering the dynamics of the Local Group cluster. It is during the close approach that interactions become complex and a monster computer is needed to analyze the possibilities.

The October 2006 issue of Sky and Telescope has an extensive article which explains how the experts have estimated the situation. You may be able to find back issues in a large library somewhere.

You came to a good place to seek answers to questions such as yours. There are plenty of people who can do better than I can.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Andromeda XII, New Dwarf Neighbour Blob Astronomy 1 29-May-2007 01:49 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.0.0
©  2006 Bad Astronomy and Universe Today