|
| If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|||||||
| Register | FAQ | Members List | Calendar | Mark Forums Read |
![]() |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
|
|||
|
Why is it assumed that singularities are at the center of black holes?
It is common to hear the terms black hole and singularity used interchangeably, but they are defined differently. A black hole is defined as a region of space from which nothing can escape, bounded by the event horizon. A singularity is an infinitely small region of infinite density at which point the mechanics of gravity break down. The mathematics of singularities was used to theorize that black holes would exist in the universe. These black holes were found and identified, but this does not prove that they contain singularities. A black hole must contain sufficient matter to create an event horizon, and this matter must be contained within its boundaries. These are finite boundaries, however, and thus there is no requirement for matter to be in an infinitely small space. The matter will not be at an infinite density, and thus there is not a singularity. Space-time is intact, Einsteins equations do not break down. As a thought experiment, think about how a singularity could ever come to exist. How could matter enter a region with zero volume? |
|
|||
|
I believe the usual explanation is that the matter itself is annihilated so that only the gravitional field remains. The problem with your question is that there is a threshhold at which the internal pressure of highly compressed matter is no longer sufficient to support it. Degeneracy pressures will not support the structure if there is suffienct matter within a smal enough diameter, so it must collapse. The math is pretty solid. Many have tried to find ways to avoid what Eddington called "absurd behavior" but the consequences when a sufficiently large star can no longer support itself with heat from fusion processes are inevitable. It must collapse. And as it collapses, since gravity is related to radius, the gravitational field only gets stronger as the star falls inward on itself. It's important to understand (and not often pointed out) that it is the singularity from which nothing can escape. The event horizon is simply the distance from the singularity over which it retains that influence. It is only outside the event horizon that escape velocity drops below c.
__________________
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately, it kills all its pupils. Hector Berlioz "To complete the picture all the photons can be seen to be synchronising friction on and off throughout the overall cone which itself is synchronised to the equal and opposite reaction of equilateral triangulation"... by a scientificator in ATM, too priceless to be lost to posterity. |
|
||||
|
Quote:
As noted in wiki, a singularity is not a thing. Many theories in physics have mathematical singularities of one kind or another. Equations for these physical theories predict that the rate of change of some quantity becomes infinite or increases without limit. This is generally a sign for a missing piece in the theory, as in the Ultraviolet Catastrophe and in renormalization. Quote:
Actually, they do, as the Penrose-Hawking singularity theorems demonstrate. Exactly. That would be ridiculous nonsense. A singularity is not a thing. It is simply an indication that the system within which one is working (in this case, GR) is incomplete.
__________________
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. |
|
||||
|
The singularity in a black hole is in the General Relativity equations (there is a location in the black hole where a lot of quantities diverge to infinity)--it is still possible that Quantum Gravity could eliminate the singularity. It's actually not the case that black holes come from singularity theory--they come from General Relativity, which also happens to put a singularity inside them.
Basically, the singularity is the place where we don't know what happens next, where another theory would have to come into play.
__________________
----- Todd (Bowie, MD, US, North America, Earth, Sol System, Vega region, Local Bubble, Orion arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Virgo A Cluster, Virgo supercluster, the universe in which spock is clean shaven) Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur. personal page: http://blog.astrosketches.info |
|
|||
|
Good article on an alternate theory in this month's Scientific American. Basically, the idea is that it may not be possible to get unlimited energy into a Planck volume because gravity becomes repulsive. Stay tuned, it's an interesting idea.
|
|
|||
|
Quote:
mind, which involves matter/antimatter pair creation and annihilation. Although I don't personally have a philosophical objection to matter becoming infinitely dense at the center of a black hole, I see two possible ways to avoid such an infinity, and both seem probable. One is described by general relativity; the other by quantum mechanics. As an expired star collapses, forming a black hole, the matter is squeezed into a smaller and smaller volume. The density increases without limit. That causes the curvature of spacetime (or gravitational field strength) to increase without limit. That causes time dilation. The time dilation means that the collapse occurs more slowly relative to the outside universe than it would in a Newtonian universe. So the matter is always falling toward the center, into a gravity well which gets deeper and deeper, without limit, stretching farther and farther in the radial direction. The deeper the gravity well gets, the greater the spacetime curvature, which means the greater the time dilation. Space turns into time in the radial direction. As matter falls closer and closer to the center, the more space is converted to time. So the matter can never reach the exact center-- it will be approaching the center for all eternity, or until the black hole evaporates due to Hawking radiation. Quantum mechanics describes matter in a way limited by uncertainty. The position and momentum of any chunk of matter cannot both be described precisely. The matter is fuzzy. Given that we know the matter is falling and thus must have some momentum, we can't say precisely where it is. That would appear to limit the minimum volume of the matter at the center of a black hole, even if there is no force which can stop or even slow the collapse. -- Jeff, in Minneapolis
__________________
http://www.FreeMars.org/jeff/ "I find astronomy very interesting, but I wouldn't if I thought we were just going to sit here and look." -- "Van Rijn" "The other planets? Well, they just happen to be there, but the point of rockets is to explore them!" -- Kai Yeves |
![]() |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| Is the measurement problem an example of essential incompleteness? | borman | Science and Technology | 7 | 04-November-2008 04:27 AM |
| A Complete Solution for the Solar Corona Heating Problem | Attiyah Zahdeh | Against the Mainstream | 4 | 05-November-2006 06:33 PM |
| Orbital Debris a Growing Problem with No End in Sight | ToSeek | Space Exploration | 24 | 17-August-2006 10:50 PM |
| Anyone have this weird PC problem? | Tranquility | Off-Topic Babbling | 17 | 09-September-2005 05:29 AM |