Recognising baut informative replies, I have not been able to find a good diagram showing the events of 2012.

It seems to me there are three intersecting vectors: the ecliptic, the solstice hemisphere line orthogonal to the celestial equator, and the stars themselves represented by the position of the centre of the galaxy.

I would be interested to know

1. Is this geometry accurate?
2. If so, is a diagram available showing the path from the present position of the galactic centre to its meeting with the ecliptic and the celestial hemisphere line at the solstice point?
3. Is the date 21 December 2012 when the galaxy moves relative to earth into a different hemisphere?

Thank you.

Robert Tulip

The "events" of 2012 are essentially fantasy. There is no special alignment in that year.

Grant Hutchison

Thanks Veeger. I read that thread and found this great picture of the meeting of the ecliptic and the solsticial meridian. But, isn't the 2012 issue that the point of the galactic centre will then be at the cross hatch where the sun is in this picture? I am sorry I don't have access to astronomical software (will look at http://www.stargazing.net/astropc/ ). I am wondering, if you took that picture in 2008 and again in 2012, and added to it the point of the galactic centre, would you see what the hoo-hah is about?

You wouldn't. The galactic centre doesn't coincide with the ecliptic / galactic plane crossing point. The hoo-hah is inexplicable.

Grant Hutchison

If I am not mistaken, the December solstice point is very close to the galactic plane, and the precession of Earth's spin axis will carry that point across the plane sometime in the year 2012. Thus the solstice that year will be the first one in the other galactic hemisphere.

I don't expect one iota of physical consequence. A nice exercise in geometry, nothing more.

In fact, that alignment happened more than ten years ago, in May 1998. Jean Meeus reported it in his Mathematical Astronomy Morsels (Chapter 48), but you can check it with any decent planetarium software.

Grant Hutchison

You seem to be looking for something that is not to be found. Those lines on that image mean nothing. they are not there. It was simply the easy method of understanding the geometry and movement of the components of this galaxy. As Earth trolls around the sun. Our view of the sky changes. We find the galactic center some times obscured by the sun. Thats the only significance to this annual event.

Well, I am disappointed that the grant unification of the cosmos has been exaggerated. I was imagining it like the hydrogen-deuterium-carbon cycle, with the two hydrogen atoms in star deuterium equating to the ecliptic and the meridian, and the third atom making carbon equating to the movement of the galactic core across the galactic plane. Missed it by that much.

Thanks Grant – so if you added the galactic centre to the 2012-12-21 picture it would not be right behind the sun?
Thanks Hornblower. It seems the close alignment between the solstice meridian and the galactic plane may have led some to confuse them with each other. For example, on this picture of 2012, is it right that the diagonal line marked ‘galactic equator’ is close but not the same as the solstice meridian?
Thanks again Grant, so this part of the theory, ie galactic core moving galactic planar hemispheres as viewed from earth, is incorrect. Yet, as I understand it in line with Hornblower’s comment, the conjunction between the solstice and the galactic core does occur in 2012, does it not?
Astromark, no I am not looking for something that is not to be found. I don’t find your comment ‘those lines are not there’ easy to understand. Thank you for the lesson in existential philosophy, but the lines are there in the picture so presumably they reflect an astronomical reality? Lines such as the ecliptic and the meridian indicate how our earth stands in relation to the cosmos. Does not this indicate they are really there?

I think the significance of this event is that the luni-solar 25765 year long precession of earth’s equinox means the December solstice will precess past the galactic core in 2012. It is true that the movement of the galactic core against the galactic equator has a roughly similar cycle? If so, a fifteen year gap between the two events is fairly close.

Apparently I was mistaken. Probably from scanning a lot of 2012 drivel for my own amusement.

I see what looks like a vivid imagination going off on flights of fancy with contrived attempts at analogies.
Not even close. The galactic center is some 5 degrees from that intersection. See my remarks further down the page.
Not even close. The solstice meridian would be straight north and south, with the galactic equator inclined about 27 degrees counterclockwise.

Once again, not even close as I interpret it. First, let me remind everyone that I stand corrected by Jan Meeus's finding that the solstice crossed the plane in 1998. That picture shows the 2012 sun slightly to the right of the galactic plane. I don't know whether or not that was intentional, but it is in good agreement with Meeus.

As for conjunction with the core, I would interpret that as the minimum separation of the solstice point and the core, which is some 5 degrees south-southwest of the current solstice point. That will occur roughly two centuries from now. See this link for the coordinates of the core.
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/312058

What cycle are you referring to?

Robert Tulip ., I said ..." It was simply the easy method of understanding the geometry and movement of the components of this galaxy. As Earth trolls around the sun. Our view of the sky changes. We find the galactic center some times obscured by the sun. Thats the only significance to this annual event." and from your comments I need to explain myself further. Yes on that wonderful image of this galaxy they have emplace the lines of inclination and declination. Yes the solar system does cross the galactic plain. Yes it has happened before., and will again. and, Yes the view of the galactic core will and is often obscured by the sun. That is not an alignment of any significance, ( its only visible in daylight. ) and would pass un-noticed but for a group of crazed doomsday naysayers.... We have no knowledge of any object or fanominum that places us at any greater risk than is the normal. I can tell you that If we were to find information that leads us down this road and or in any way endangered humanity you will read it here.

It would not.

There is no "theory". People who propound this story are simply mistaken, misled or lying.

You've misunderstood Hornblower. See his comments above. The galactic core is some distance from the solstice point at present, and there will be nothing special about their relative positions in 2012.

Grant Hutchison

Many thanks all. I have not studied this issue in depth and am taking the opportunity to ask what of the claims about 2012 might be true. It seems the fact that the solstice point will be in front of the milky way in 2012 has been extrapolated into false claims in some quarters. A main proponent of 2012 Mayan predictions, John Major Jenkins, has what looks to be an accurate explanation here.

I must apologise, my question on the crossing of the galactic plane was answered previously by Grant Hutchison, but in looking at different sources I forgot Grant's answer. At http://www.bautforum.com/questions-a...ml#post1357082 Grant said "The sun is north of the galactic plane at present, and moving farther from it. The period is about 65 million years. The amplitude is about 200 light-years either side of the galactic plane." To which Veeger responded "Thanks for that Grant. Your figures confirm my own research and strikes a body-blow to the 2012 galactic plane crossing, scare-mongers." My last post confused this 65 million year cycle with the 26000 year cycle of precession. Is this 65 million year cycle the one which crossed the plane in 1998?

Robert Tulip

The "2012 issue" is that a bunch of woo-woos are spewing loads of BS which would be worthy of an imaginative, hyperactive 6-year-old on steroids.

What will happen in 2012? Well, go back to the year you were born and use all of the years since then as examples for 2012.

Anybody who makes wild, overstrung, esoteric predictions for 2012 is going to look like a damn fool when that year comes and goes without mentionable occasion, just like any other year.

So, I'm going to go listen to my "Hair" soundtrack and dream about the 60's:

__________________
Ach, mein Sinn, wo willst du endlich hin, wo soll ich mich erquicken? Bleib' ich hier, oder wünsch' ich mir Berg und Hügel auf den Rücken?
Bei der Welt ist gar kein Rat, und im Herzen steh'n die Schmerzen meiner Missetat, weil der Knecht den Herrn verleugnet hat.

No, the solstice points move along the ecliptic with the 25,800-year precession cycle.
The ~65-million-year oscillation is a movement of the sun north and south within the galactic disc. It can be modelled with reference to a notional "galactic plane", which aligns approximately with the galactic coordinate system. We passed through it from galactic south to north more than a million years ago.

Grant Hutchison

I have it on good authority that in 2012, the Midwestern Corn Group will suffer bankruptcy, but...

Or maybe it was the South African Grass Growers Association?

I can't remember which - I must have been tired. Oh well.

__________________
If I set the budget, we'd have Ares and more. Unfortunately, I don't set the budget, and Ares is just too expensive and too far out for us to accomplish our goals within the budget we were given.

If we halt the ISS, all versions of Ares, and transport Orion and Altair aboard DIRECTv3's Jupiter family of Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles, we just might make it back to the Moon by 2020.

I think, since Jenkins was one of the earlier authors making a link between Mayan "end of the age" sensationalism and the galactic alignment (his original book "Galactic Alignment" was published in 2002 and some essays predate that), many have mistaken his mention of the precessional movement across the galactic plane with a physical movement across the plane. I have yet to see where Jenkins makes the claim, the shift is physical. As a first impression I would consider Jenkins another sensationalist, but I confess, I have never read any of his books; only bits and pieces of his website. He like many of these "researchers" / authors believe ancient people were aware of and in some case had detailed knowledge of lunisolar precession.

Why do people worry about the Mayan calendar "predictions"? Our calender "predicts" The End at 31 december of every single year, and nobody panics about that. (ok, except when you forgot to buy presents...)

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To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

I have nothing to say.

I just wanted to stake out an article in this topic because it looks like it's going to be a magnet for people seeking 2012 prediction information. I may have something to say about that. Gotta go.

===

Edit: Vectors? I'll give you some vectors. Follow these pointers to enlightenment.

Yep, rodin pushed it over the edge, below, with ludicrous and unsupported claims of psychological operations and disinformation campaigns, so, in case scared people come here looking for information about pseudoscientific year-2012 predictions, to counteract the nonsense, I present this collected wisdom of BAUT Forum members in regards to the nearly entirely false predictions for year 2012, scattered among a large number of topics.

This isn't a FAQ, a collection of frequently asked questions. It's all the questions and answers I could find at one point in time many months ago, and accumulations since. But, funny thing, a lot of them are asked frequently, repeatedly, over and over, redundantly, till the cows come home, which will probably be some time in 2013. Enjoy, if you can.

Some BAUT Forum topics that have addressed aspects of predictions for year 2012, and some allied articles, are:

1. 2003 no, 2012 si
2. 2012
3. End of Mayan Calendar
4. Pole shift / Planetary alignment 2012?
5. 2012 alignment question
6. about the Mayan 2012 item
7. 2012 Debunking?
8. Possible asteroid impact in 2012?
9. 2012 asteroid?
10. We don't have to worry about 2012!
11. More on 2012 from India Daily
12. 2012 Completion of conspiracy?
13. Here's what's REALLY going to happen in 2012...
14. crop circles, Planet X and 2012
15. Planet X, crop circles and 2012 cataclysma
16. According to the Mayans, what will happen on 23rd Dec. 2012?
17. More 2012 Nonsense
18. NEO 2012?
19. Dangerous NEO in 2012?
20. Christmas 2012
21. 2012 mayan calender end of world
22. Regarding the supposed polar shift/new ice age in 2012
23. New 2012 threat?
24. 2012 look at this thing on the sun
25. Russian Expert Predicts Global Cooling from 2012
26. Pole shift idea origins
27. Dec 20 2012
28. 2012 Stuff
29. No reply previous question
30. Horizon Project-New End of World Scare?
31. Date: December 21st 2012
32. Earth passing thru Galactic center in 2012 - didn't that already happen?
33. 2012: What do you think well happen (if anything)
34. So what will we see in 2012?
35. Galactic Tsunami?
36. Plane of the ecliptic of the galaxy?
37. Earth's Magnetic Field & 2012
38. 2012?
39. Any truth to this?
40. How can the sun be aligned with Galactic centre?
41. the whole 2012 poles flip nonsense
42. Planet X Official Advertisement
43. What year are we in
44. Quick question about the sun
45. Galactic Alignment
46. Books of 2012! -
47. 2007 = 2012
48. Return of Planet X By Rand
49. Don Alejandro - Mayan Elder.
50. Toutatis 4179: 2012?
51. Galactic Alignment in 2012 ?
52. Solar Storms
53. A real prediction!
54. NIBURU - Brown Dwarf, The DESTROYER
55. 2012 Galactic Alignment
56. Not 2012 again! But I cant help it~
57. New evidence for 2012 TEOTWAWKI!!!
58. this may be a silly question but...
59. Just to know if this is true
60. Just Wondering...
61. Planet X/Nibiru, is it real?
62. Youv heard this a million times.
63. Nibaru or Planet X
64. Mayan calendar
65. 2012 Article?
66. can i say something please on planet x
67. Nibiru
68. The growing earth.... :P
69. Our Solar System's Eclipse of the Galactic Plane on Dec 21, 2012?
70. Something scaring the hell out of me....
71. It's Only the end of the World AGAIN!!! (Woo Woo Alert)
72. 2021 Doomsday
73. is it just me or is the milky way brighter..?
74. Polar Shift in 2012?
75. I would like to ask about Nubiru stuff...
76. Bit behind the times, my appologies...
77. the "pole shift thing"
78. All the Truth about 2012
79. Confused about 2012 (yes, another one!)
80. Another paranoia mind due to 2012
81. novelty theory
82. Possibility of Pole Shift
83. 2012 Vectors

Universe Today: No Doomsday in 2012
Bad Astronomy Blog: 2012, the year nothing will happen
Universe Today: 2012: No Planet X
Universe Today: 2012: Planet X is not Nibiru
Universe Today: 2012: No Killer Solar Flare
Universe Today: 2012: No Geomagnetic Reversal

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http://www.greatdreams.com/2012.htm presents an argument that
And yet the same website states: Was the Mayan linkage of the precessional cycle to the galactic core out by 14 years?

There's no evidence the Maya were bothered about any such thing. Their calendar had a start date of purely mythological significance, and progressed in a sequence of Long Counts of 20x18x20x20x13 days, or about 5125 years. Five of those Long Counts turn out to be a couple of hundred years shorter than the precession cycle. The only people who are out by 14 years are those modern fantasists who are trying to concoct some astronomical significance for the end of the current Long Count.

Grant Hutchison

If so, so what?

If true, it's a nice statistic, like some doped up baseball millionaire hitting x+1 homeruns, but is positively and absolutely meaningless to our lives.

What Mayan linkage?

Something tells me, that when a people doesn't use the wheel and thinks the world is flat, that it doesn't make many usefull predictions about galactic phenonema.

__________________
Ach, mein Sinn, wo willst du endlich hin, wo soll ich mich erquicken? Bleib' ich hier, oder wünsch' ich mir Berg und Hügel auf den Rücken?
Bei der Welt ist gar kein Rat, und im Herzen steh'n die Schmerzen meiner Missetat, weil der Knecht den Herrn verleugnet hat.

A relevant quotation from EG Richards' Mapping Time:These folk cared so little about keeping their calendar matched to the seasons, they never had a leap year: they just adjusted the dates of seasonal events instead. Does that seem like a group of people who would tie their long calendar to a particular solstice date in the far future?

Grant Hutchison

2012 is a psyop (you only have to see who has been promoting it) but the date may be manipulated for some contrived end. My technical analysis of markets predicts a dislocation around the much vaunted 12 21 2012 date. Numbers, it seems, do matter to some

Cool. A secret gub'ment operation. A perfect topic for our Conspiracy Theories forum.

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Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

We Mayans have established a safe haven in the nth side dimension where we will ride out the end of the world cycle in 2012 (give or take), and come back to rebuild the world in neatly fashioned megaliths. Anybody wanna sign up to be a Mayan? (Special perks for stone masons, astrologers, and sacrificial virgins.) Membership includes a cool "I survived 2012" T-shirt (or loin cloth, your choice), lapel button, secret handshake, and your own set of nth dimensional gate incantations. But sign up soon...the nth dimension isn't all that big, and the end is coming...

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Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately, it kills all its pupils. Hector Berlioz

"To complete the picture all the photons can be seen to be synchronising friction on and off throughout the overall cone which itself is synchronised to the equal and opposite reaction of equilateral triangulation"... by a scientificator in ATM, too priceless to be lost to posterity.

I hasten to add that previous was not directed at the OP, though he is welcome to sign up too.

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Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately, it kills all its pupils. Hector Berlioz

"To complete the picture all the photons can be seen to be synchronising friction on and off throughout the overall cone which itself is synchronised to the equal and opposite reaction of equilateral triangulation"... by a scientificator in ATM, too priceless to be lost to posterity.

I love it. Thank you.