Man, I hope I never grow up.

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Rovers forever! - ToSeek
"Carl Sagan sent a message to ET,
Neil Armstrong walked in the Sea of Tranquility
Steve Squyers built Spirit and Opportunity
Dan Haylen upchucked in zero gravity." -Brent Simon, The Space Camp Song
'Evolution and science are one thing, but you don’t mess with Yoko Ono. Everybody knows that. ' - 386sx

I wouldn't think Mars's moons would count for much in the gravitational scheme of things. (a 13 km and 20 something kilometer rock?)


And electric thrusters seem too slow. You would have to lift your orbital profile above the atmosphere within the course of a single orbit (a few orbits max) to pull out in time, or you'd be spiralling in.

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http://amssolarempire.blogspot.com

Personally, I struggle to believe there'll be much resource exploitation in Space until we have a significant presence in Space - away from the gravity well of Earth.

ie - The Moon.

Once we have a significant presence, and colony (or hopefully colonies) on the Moon, regulation of Space will inevitably transfer away from nations on Earth that will no doubt be imposing unacceptable regulatory hurdles in all sorts of ways - to the low cost environment offered from the Moon - an independent Moon mind you.

Efficiency will drive that migration of Space based business away from Earth - the Moon will be the beneficiary initially.

It is close to Earth, close to the finance of Earth, but when in time it is not constrained by the regulatory limits imposed from Earth it will really take off. I tend to think this status quo will be maintained for up to a century, at least until there is significant development of colonies on the Asteroids and further out in the Solar System, and even huge floating Space Stations.

We're talking long time horizons here though folks, I wouldn't expect a significant presence on the Moon until the end of this century, and when I say significant, I mean self-sustaining. Heck, for the next 10 years we're all getting excited about Space enterprises talking about LEO flights!

By the time we move beyond that we're already in the 2020s, heading for 2030! If you look at the 70 years from 1960-2030, then you realise that these things do not move quickly - and that's discounting economic issues back here on Earth which could have terrible effects on Space Exploration.

There are simply too many variables.

I would hope that by the end of this century we'll have a self-sustaining Moon base(s) up and going, a permanent manned presence on Mars, and have visited some of the Asteroids, but beyond that, I can't see much happening this century - which is disappointing, but I think realistic.

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BugMeNot A portal to bypass free-site registration.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer - renowned 19th Century German philosopher.

1. Electric motors in space still need reaction mass. So whether its some generationally improved ion engine, chemical thrust, or even a buncha aerosol cans glued to the wings, you're still needing fuel mass.

2. I wouldn't put too much stock in momentum stealing from Martian moons. They're not all that gravitationally impressive, otherwise we'd be using them already for satellite capture.

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I'm not completely heartless, the doctor who removed it told me he'd never be able to get it all.

(bold mine)

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

You're right. The amount of thrust available for graviational slingshot maneuvers is insufficient; it's insignificant compared to the solar power advantage of Venus.

However, it's still possible to play gravity games to usefully steal energy from Martian moons, using a more direct approach. Instead of trying to get a graviational boost from a Martian moon, you can manufacture an aeroscoop tank factory on Phobos.

The aeroscoop hardware is a small reusable module which lands on Phobos and is latched onto the aeroscoop tank.

Then, the aeroscoop ship lofts into an elliptical orbit that scoops up upper Martian atmosphere while de facto aero-braking.

This aero-braking lowers the orbit with each pass, until the tank is full and the aeroscoop ship circularizes its orbit.

The aeroscoop ship docks with an orbital habitat in low Mars orbit; the small reusable module detaches and returns to Phobos.

Basically, the mass of Phobos is lowered into a lower orbit in the form of storage tanks in order to lift Martian gas into orbit.

When talking about space, a lot of people conjecture what will happen in "this century"; I think you're forgetting just how long a century is, or rather, how much can change in one. 100 years is how long it took to go from the horse and buggy or the steam train to the first Moon landing. It's how long it took to get from the telegraph to the internet. A lot can happen in a century, and the changes of this century will no doubt make the last one look slow and stable by comparison. So don't write off the 21st Century yet, it's still just a baby and has a lot of living to do.

__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

I'm still waiting for my flying car to go back and forth to work. They have been promising it for 60 years now.

Wait a few years and you can buy a retired rocket racer.

__________________
Rovers forever! - ToSeek
"Carl Sagan sent a message to ET,
Neil Armstrong walked in the Sea of Tranquility
Steve Squyers built Spirit and Opportunity
Dan Haylen upchucked in zero gravity." -Brent Simon, The Space Camp Song
'Evolution and science are one thing, but you don’t mess with Yoko Ono. Everybody knows that. ' - 386sx

Some things, you can't get no matter how long you wait.

__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

I just hope the same won't be said of space travel in another 60 years.

__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

No way, Jose.
"We're breaking free!
Soaring, flying
There's not a star in heaven that we can't reach!" -High School Musical

__________________
Rovers forever! - ToSeek
"Carl Sagan sent a message to ET,
Neil Armstrong walked in the Sea of Tranquility
Steve Squyers built Spirit and Opportunity
Dan Haylen upchucked in zero gravity." -Brent Simon, The Space Camp Song
'Evolution and science are one thing, but you don’t mess with Yoko Ono. Everybody knows that. ' - 386sx

Sorry for that bummer, I'm at the stage in my meds cycle where it's hard to be optimistic.

__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

Watch High School Musical?

__________________
Rovers forever! - ToSeek
"Carl Sagan sent a message to ET,
Neil Armstrong walked in the Sea of Tranquility
Steve Squyers built Spirit and Opportunity
Dan Haylen upchucked in zero gravity." -Brent Simon, The Space Camp Song
'Evolution and science are one thing, but you don’t mess with Yoko Ono. Everybody knows that. ' - 386sx

No, I want to feel better, not worse!

__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

I don't like the story that much, either, but the songs are very quoteable. My favorite movies:
Any animated Scooby-Doo movie.
Any classic Disney pic, up to and including Treasure Planet.
Star Wars I, IV or VI.
Contact.
National Treasure
Night at the Museum.

__________________
Rovers forever! - ToSeek
"Carl Sagan sent a message to ET,
Neil Armstrong walked in the Sea of Tranquility
Steve Squyers built Spirit and Opportunity
Dan Haylen upchucked in zero gravity." -Brent Simon, The Space Camp Song
'Evolution and science are one thing, but you don’t mess with Yoko Ono. Everybody knows that. ' - 386sx

I like the original Scooby-Doos, when proving that the monsters were fakes was the main point of the show. The newer movies, etc with "real" aliens, zombies, ghosts and monsters kinda miss that point.

As for Star Wars, the original trio. Theatrical version. HAN SHOT FIRST.

__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

Me, too. The '99 to '02 movies or so were all about the supernatural being real and killing the whole point. From Cyber Chase on, though, it's been back to skepticism that would make Randi proud.
VI and VI are Original Trilogy.

__________________
Rovers forever! - ToSeek
"Carl Sagan sent a message to ET,
Neil Armstrong walked in the Sea of Tranquility
Steve Squyers built Spirit and Opportunity
Dan Haylen upchucked in zero gravity." -Brent Simon, The Space Camp Song
'Evolution and science are one thing, but you don’t mess with Yoko Ono. Everybody knows that. ' - 386sx

Talk about Topic Drift!