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"The bread's hollowed out --- the veggies go on forever --- and --- oh my God! --- it's full of meat!" - Maksutov |
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Latest press release:
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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling. |
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Engineering Science Payload Delivered to Mars Phoenix Mission "PIT"
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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling. |
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I got my print version of Military & Aerospace Electronics on Monday. The online version is a month behind, so I can't link to this article, just yet.
This article is about integrating components onto the actual spacecraft at JPL in Pasadena. Electronic pieces of NASA's next Mars mission are coming together Quote:
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Sunning Frozen Soil
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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling. |
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One Year to Launch!
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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling. |
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Piecing Together Life's Potential
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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling. |
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Detailed Look at the Next Mars Lander
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NASA Future Mission: Phoenix Overview: Quote:
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Because it doesn't need wheels to do the science it's designed to do. A grab-bag spot anywhere in the hydrogen-rich soils of the northern latitudes is enough. A rover designed to carry the instrument payload of Phoenix would have to be the size of the 2009 rover, MSL, which will cost more than twice as much.
Doug |
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Which brings up the question, why was Mars Polar Lander a stationary lander?
I think partly it's because it is build by the University of Arizona. Rovers and airbags are typical JPL inventions, not everybody is convinced of their usefulness. For instance, the mobility of a rover comes at a great price, it takes a big piece out of the payload mass. That's why the 2 MER rovers only have that small science package at the tip of a robotic arm. Besides that, Phoenix is not a geology mission, it just looks for water(ice) in the ground. That ice layer should be everywhere in that region of Mars, so there is no need for driving to it. Theoretically, that is. |
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Your comment about the innovative and exciting ExoMars mission is derogatory, unneccessary and should be retracted. Jon |
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Amazing how fast we get spoiled, isn't it? Give'em a couple rovers, and suffenly those stationary landers look like the Model T.
A little thought for y'all remarking about the lack of mobility. Spirit and Opportunity were designed to look for traces of water in Martian geography. They had to be mobile, because quite frankly, no one had a clue where those signs of water might be found, if they were even there to be found at all. With Pheonix, we know what we want, we know where it is, we don't have to go fishing for it, so mobility isn't an advantage to the mission criteria. Please, folks, a little thought before releasing that knee-jerk, alright?
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The last time I felt a warm fuzzy feeling, I was informed by my doctor that it was just gas. |
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If you talk about cost restrictions in Scout type missions, I seen more interesting mission proposals for Martian Scout missions than Phoenix.
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Hmmm. This is somewhat convincing, but still one mobile rover = new stationary lander in new place every week. And you would use two, three, ten, more Phoenix landers, right? At least for comparing different drill sites. |
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Jon |
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BTW... I know about Rosetta, but: 1. Mission is on way, not deployed. Main mission even not begin! 2. Their rover will be deployed in completely different enviroment and is not certain that this would work anyway - see Hayabusa. In other words, this mission don't count for now. In other words, if you had avaliable many stationary landers a la Phoenix for price of two, you will throw these away? Strange. Oh, well. |
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I can see why people want to bolt wheels onto everything, but you have to think about these things sensibly. Phoenix is a highly focused, short life mission. 6 months down the line, Phoenix will be dead because of the sun setting for several months. It's a short lived, focused science goals mission. It doesn't need wheels, and to deliver its payload on wheels would cost as much as say....MSL...and wheels would be madness because yeah, you could move from here..to here... but the northern polar plains are not like Meridiani or Gusev - there will not be much to rover to anyway - and you only have a few months before the sun sets for months and your mission is over. Phoenix is the right mission for the right job in answering the issue of volitiles in the Martian soil And you asked this of someone else.... yes... if Phoenix works I would rather it were done than two more MER's in its place ( infact, it would be impossible to do a single MER on the Phoenix budget according to MER PI Steve Squyres ) - and after Phoenix, I would rather we had one MSL rather than another two MER's. I am possibly the biggest 'fan' of MER around - I started a web forum dedicated to them three years ago ( which has now grown to something else ) - I've given talks just about the rovers to astronomy societies etc etc etc - but I also understand that they are designed for a specific job, and that the question of polar ice is not it. More is better...but my definition of more is more science, not just the number of wheels on the ground. I'm seing the same argument all over the place - put out by people who just don't understand the principles of putting payload on the surface, and by people who seem to think that the best way forward, is to do more of the same....which is just wrong. Doug |
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For me, it is no-brainer, but oh well. |
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And how do you propose to operate MSL in the six month north polar night? Are you actually proposing a $1B rover that will have a mission of only 3 months before the long night sets in and kills it? For me, it's a no brainer. What you propose is both a waste of a rover and/or a waste of half a billion $ - depends how you look at it. But given that Phoenix is deep into ATLO, the majority of its budget is already spent, and to cancel it now would be a waste of something like $400M. What you are suggesting makes no scientific, financial or systematic sense.
Phoenix is the best way to go an answer the question of the north polar deposits. Doing it with a $1B rover would be a waste of a rover and a waste of money. I would put a lot of money on your initial response once a rover landed at the Phoenix site being "why did they send a rover here - it's all the same!" Doug |
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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling. |
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You think that MSL is powered on solar panels? Or that version of MSL can't have more heaters and other small modifications? Or what? Quote:
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To you all: Decide how much would this cost. Two Phoenixs? 1 bln $? 5 Phoenixs? I would go with price tag for original MSL (considering that would be n-th MSL-class rover, so lower costs, but cost of doing modifications for polar enviroment would make this up). |
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MaDeR,
The MSL was a pipe dream when the Phoenix mission was already in full force, using equipment already well suited for use on the MPL-type vehicle bus. I don't even see how this is an issue with you. So we should just have spent millions redesigning the MSL bus to incorporate the instruments or even spend millions more redesigning the instruments for the MSL bus? And in the process delaying the mission for years? Hey, I've got a $4,000 dollar toilet seat you might be interested in...
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"The bread's hollowed out --- the veggies go on forever --- and --- oh my God! --- it's full of meat!" - Maksutov |
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