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JPL press release:
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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling. |
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Thank you very much ToSeek.
An excellent update. ![]() It is very interesting to see that the Mars Orbiters are deliberately having their orbital properties altered, so they can listen in to the landing of Phoenix in Scandia Colles. Also it is very encouraging to see ESA do likewise with Mars Express. If Phoenix crashes, we should know why very quickly, but also hopefully the landing will succeed & of course we will want to know, what went well, so that can be transferred to future landers. I hope that MRO will image the landing site with the HiRISE, post Phoenix arrival. This will of course help pin piont the exact spot. ![]() My gut felling is that this is going to go well. Phoenix had such a tough & rigorous prelaunch testing regime, that any bugs that crashed the ill fated Mars Polar Lander are non existent. Also the fact that there have been no real problems during the cruise thus far, also shows how beautifully built & engineered Phoenix is. Lets hope that Mars does not think otherwise (inclement weather & / or large boulders). ![]() This mission will reveal much new information & insights, the landing site in particular & the high latitudes in general. ![]() Andrew Brown.
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"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979. Last edited by 3488; 29-February-2008 at 01:23 PM.. Reason: Typo corrections. |
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After the dual fiascoes with the Mars Climate Orbiter and the Mars Polar Lander, NASA is dead set against something similar happening again. I'm sure they've taken huge pains to be as confident as possible that it won't.
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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling. |
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I agree ToSeek,
It was a double fiasco of the highest order, made worse by the fact that the Mars Climate Orbiter, was a fully functioning craft & was lost due to two teams who could not communicate the simple fact that one was working in imperial measurements & the other in Metric measurements. Talk about not getting your sums right. ![]() Mars Polar Lander, should never have launched without having that vital piece of software checked. How the hell could that happen? We can accept failure due to natural causes, such as large boulders, steep slopes tipping the craft over, etc, these things are part of the risk associated with these endeavours, still upsetting, but it can be said, that we did our utmost. But that double fiasco, was due to carelessness, lack of communication & in my opinion, a very shoddy way of management. Both missions could have & should have succeeded. But looking more recently, beginning with Mars Odyssey, every NASA Mars craft has been spectacularly successful (the MERs for instance, lasted some 15 times their design life & continuing to operate very well). Phoenix has been built with the same mindset as the MERs, thoroughly tested, well managed & beautifully engineered. More like the NASA we know & love. I am quietly optimistic that Phoenix will land successfully. Once again ToSeek, thank you very much. Andrew Brown.
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"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979. |
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So hold on.
What will the benefits from Phoenix's mission be exactly? Is it something to do with dormant life on Mars? I'm a little cold on the details.
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"Well, gee' they might wanna know, I mean; what happens if I, drop a black hole, in a black hole?" |
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I'm guessing by the name of the mission that it is looking for ashes that smell like cinnamon.
You can read more details on the official website here.
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Forming opinions as we speak |
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Just had a tiny read.
Something about curiosity. Which is good ![]() Although will this ever compliment the idea of colonising Mars? I mean, I've heard we'll have to in due time.
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"Well, gee' they might wanna know, I mean; what happens if I, drop a black hole, in a black hole?" |
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We need to know things about Mars, and we are picking the low hanging fruit right now. The Phoenix mission is looking for solid water on Mars. Hopefully what it tells us will help paint a bigger picture when joined with everything else.
Will it help to colonize Mars? Yes. Will the Mars Phoenix data be all that important by the time we actually do colonize Mars? probably not.
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Forming opinions as we speak |
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That being said, it's worth keeping in mind that MCO and MPL combined cost significantly less than one rover - they were very cheap missions, so not nearly as much was lost as if an MRO or MER had failed.
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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling. Last edited by ToSeek; 01-March-2008 at 04:57 AM.. Reason: Corrected wrong pronoun: "them" not "me" |
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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling. |
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I did not realise that you were personally involved. Your statement backs up what I said, that management was weak. You noticed an error was made. Did anyone in management listen to you? No, they did not. I can understand that they were very cheap missions, but were perfectly capable of successfully completing their missions, if management, listened to those, such as yourself in the know. A shame that you were not management. If you were, I am sure we would have had two successful missions. Are you involved with Phoenix? I was involved in the campaign to get Phoenix approved, after the loss of Polar Lander & I was also involved in the campaign in getting DAWN on the way to 4 Vesta & 1 Ceres. I find it quite sad when members have to question the scientific value of this mission. This mission will reveal an enormous amount of new information, regarding the Martian arctic area in general & the landing site in particular. Soil to ice ratios, composition, deposition history, general environment from ground level of the Martian high northern latitudes (something never done before), did life ever arise there, before the conditions became too harsh? Not to mention the PanCam images showing the landscape. These will reveal the form of the surrounding area, clues as to what has happened there, monitoring clouds, hopefully filming the Martian Midnight Sun dipping to 2 degress above the northern horizon before rising again (good PR observation, but also scientifically useful regarding pinpointing the exact location of Phoenix & further information regarding the movements of Mars), etc. This is a superb mission. Lets hope it works, fingers crossed, but Pheonix is a beautifully built, well tested & engineered craft, so I am quietly hopeful. Andrew Brown.
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"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979. |
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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling. |
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When you're standing on the edge of nowhere, there's only one way up... "If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis Rovers forever! - ToSeek |
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Why, thank you, but I'm far from the only space professional here. NGC3314 (may have the number wrong) even helps to decide what Hubble should target.
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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling. |
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Can it get any better? Phoenix is planned to touchdown on Mars on International Day of the Jedi! Star Wars and NASA! May the Force be with you, Phoenix!
Hey, "Phoenix Force"! Sweet, now we've got X-Men, too!
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When you're standing on the edge of nowhere, there's only one way up... "If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis Rovers forever! - ToSeek |
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Hi every one,
I think you will all be interested in this. MRO HiRISE view of frosted ground in Phoenix landing ellipse. I am really looking forward to this mission immensely. ![]() Andrew Brown.
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"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979. |
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University of Arizona Phoenix Mars Mission
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![]() If you liked the crusty old Daniel Maas MER Mission CGI animation movie(s), there are some similar animations by Maas Digital of these more current Phoenix Mission events at: Phoenix Mission Gallery :: Videos and Animations (QuickTime, some in 100-megabyte HD versions, from last year or earlier). I think the still image above is from one of the animations. Quote:
May 25, 1637 PDT May 25, 1937 EDT May 25, 2337 UTC 60 days to landing
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My guess is that it is actual time, a moment in mission elapsed time, extracted from a timeline schedule, and we'll get our confirmation later at whatever lightspeed allows. But, in brief searches I haven't found a mission event timeline, so that countdown clock was all I could estimate a landing time on. It all depends on how they decided to implement that feature. Code includes Code:
so.addVariable("label","LANDING");
//so.addVariable("yr",2008);
//so.addVariable("mon",5);
//so.addVariable("day",25);
//so.addVariable("hr",16);
//so.addVariable("min",36);
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I recently watched JPL's latest video on the Phoenix. My impression is that it is such a high-risk entry and landing procedure, that they spent a lot of time explaining what can go wrong, not what can go right. Then again, the last time we landed successfully on Mars using the rocket method was with Viking in 1976...
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Landing thrusters worked decades ago. There's no reason they should work worse using more recent technology. That's not to say landing on Mars is easy. It's not, evidenced by the failures, and highlighted by the recent topic The Mars Landing Approach: Getting Large Payloads to the Surface of the Red Planet, summarized: enough atmosphere to make it dangerous; not enough atmosphere to make it easy. (Oh, original video cited was probably the dramatic Phoenix Mars Lander: Entry Descent and Landing, with interviews, at NASA Video Gallery. Interesting is the pure CGI, without talking heads, Phoenix EDL Animation video at Phoenix Videos and Animations.)
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NASA Phoenix News: NASA Spacecraft Fine Tunes Course for Mars Landing
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![]() Google Mars for context, centered on landing spot, with the prominent Heimdall Crater mid-right. NASA Phoenix multimedia page highlights the landing target.
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University of Arizona Phoenix Mars Mission
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Sunday, May 25, 1636 PDT Sunday, May 25, 1936 EDT Sunday, May 25, 2336 UTC Planetary Society Weblog: The Phoenix landing site Quote:
Nice countdown and milestone information may be had at an D. Muller's site: Phoenix Mars Landing Real-Time Simulation Go, Phoenix! Just under 4 weeks to landing
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University of Arizona Phoenix Mars Mission
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Sunday, May 25, 1636 PDT Sunday, May 25, 1936 EDT Sunday, May 25, 2336 UTC 3 weeks to landing
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Does anyone know if they will broadcast the landing live on NASA TV?
I looked at the schedule for special events here: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasat..._Breaking.html and did not see it listed. Does that mean they will not broadcast it? I was really looking forward to watching the first signal come down.
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"I'm as accurate as any psychic. And I'm a cartoon!" -- Squidward "Arrrgh, the laws of physics be a harsh mistress!" -- Bender |
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I'd bet anything. Edit: Planetary Society: Phoenix Landing Events Arizona State is planning on NASA coverage: Quote:
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Yes, they will. Coverage should start at 6pm EDT.
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