Phoenix mission - Page 6

KaiYeves · #**151** (**permalink**) 26-February-2008, 11:37 PM

I always think of May as Star Wars month, but this is easily as cool!
Go Phoenix!

ToSeek · #**152** (**permalink**) 29-February-2008, 02:56 AM

JPL press release:

Quote:

Spacecraft at Mars Prepare to Welcome New Kid on the Block

Three Mars spacecraft are adjusting their orbits to be over the right place at the right time to listen to NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander as it enters the Martian atmosphere on May 25.

Every landing on Mars is difficult. Having three orbiters track Phoenix as it streaks through Mars' atmosphere will set a new standard for coverage of critical events during a robotic landing. The data stream from Phoenix will be relayed to Earth throughout the spacecraft's entry, descent and landing events. If all goes well, the flow of information will continue for one minute after touchdown.

"We will have diagnostic information from the top of the atmosphere to the ground that will give us insight into the landing sequence," said David Spencer of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., deputy project manager for the Phoenix Mars Lander project. This information would be valuable in the event of a problem with the landing and has the potential to benefit the design of future landers.

Bob Mase, mission manager at JPL for NASA's Mars Odyssey orbiter, said, "We have been precisely managing the trajectory to position Odyssey overhead when Phoenix arrives, to ensure we are ready for communications. Without those adjustments, we would be almost exactly on the opposite side of the planet when Phoenix arrives."

NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is making adjustments in bigger increments, with one firing of thrusters on Feb. 6 and at least one more planned in April. The European Space Agency's Mars Express orbiter has also maneuvered to be in place to record transmissions from Phoenix during the landing. Even the NASA rovers Spirit and Opportunity have been aiding preparations, simulating transmissions from Phoenix for tests with the orbiters.

Launched on Aug. 4, 2007, Phoenix will land farther north than any previous mission to Mars, at a site expected to have frozen water mixed with soil just below the surface. The lander will use a robotic arm to put samples of soil and ice into laboratory instruments. One goal is to study whether the site has ever had conditions favorable for supporting microbial life.

Phoenix will hit the top of the Martian atmosphere at 5.7 kilometers per second (12,750 miles per hour). In the next seven minutes, it will use heat-shield friction, a parachute, then descent rockets to slow to about 2.4 meters per second (5.4 mph) before landing on three legs.

Odyssey will tilt from its normally downward-looking orientation to turn its ultrahigh-frequency (UHF) antenna toward the descending Phoenix. As Odyssey receives a stream of information from Phoenix, it will immediately relay the stream to Earth with a more capable high-gain antenna. The other two orbiters, Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter and Mars Express, will record transmissions from Phoenix during the descent, as backup to ensure that all data is captured, then transmit the whole files to Earth after the landing. "We will begin recording about 10 minutes before the landing," said JPL's Ben Jai, mission manager for Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter.

The orbiters' advance support for the Phoenix mission also includes examination of potential landing sites, which is continuing. After landing, the support will include relaying communication between Phoenix and Earth during the three months that Phoenix is scheduled to operate on the surface. Additionally, NASA and European Space Agency ground stations are performing measurements to determine the trajectory of Phoenix with high precision.

With about 160 million kilometers (100 million miles) still to fly as of late February, Phoenix continues to carry out testing and other preparations of its instruments. The pressure and temperature sensors of the meteorological station provided by the Canadian Space Agency were calibrated Feb. 27 for the final time before landing. "The spacecraft has been behaving so well that we have been able to focus much of the team's attention on preparations for landing and surface operations," Spencer said.

The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith of the University of Arizona, Tucson, with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions are provided by the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; the Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. Additional information on Phoenix is online at http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu . JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages Mars Odyssey and Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Additional information on NASA's Mars program is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mars .

- end -

3488 · #**153** (**permalink**) 29-February-2008, 01:22 PM

Thank you very much ToSeek.

An excellent update.

It is very interesting to see that the Mars Orbiters are deliberately having their orbital properties altered, so they can listen in to the landing of Phoenix in Scandia Colles.

Also it is very encouraging to see ESA do likewise with Mars Express. If Phoenix crashes, we should know why very quickly, but also hopefully the landing will succeed & of course we will want to know, what went well, so that can be transferred to future landers.

I hope that MRO will image the landing site with the HiRISE, post Phoenix arrival. This will of course help pin piont the exact spot.

My gut felling is that this is going to go well. Phoenix had such a tough & rigorous prelaunch testing regime, that any bugs that crashed the ill fated Mars Polar Lander are non existent.

Also the fact that there have been no real problems during the cruise thus far, also shows how beautifully built & engineered Phoenix is.

Lets hope that Mars does not think otherwise (inclement weather & / or large boulders).

This mission will reveal much new information & insights, the landing site in particular & the high latitudes in general.

Andrew Brown.

ToSeek · #**154** (**permalink**) 29-February-2008, 02:01 PM

After the dual fiascoes with the Mars Climate Orbiter and the Mars Polar Lander, NASA is dead set against something similar happening again. I'm sure they've taken huge pains to be as confident as possible that it won't.

3488 · #**155** (**permalink**) 29-February-2008, 02:26 PM

I agree ToSeek,

It was a double fiasco of the highest order, made worse by the fact that the Mars Climate Orbiter, was a fully functioning craft & was lost due to two teams who could not communicate the simple fact that one was working in imperial measurements & the other in Metric measurements. Talk about not getting your sums right.

Mars Polar Lander, should never have launched without having that vital piece of software checked. How the hell could that happen?

We can accept failure due to natural causes, such as large boulders, steep slopes tipping the craft over, etc, these things are part of the risk associated with these endeavours, still upsetting, but it can be said, that we did our utmost.

But that double fiasco, was due to carelessness, lack of communication & in my opinion, a very shoddy way of management. Both missions could have & should have succeeded.

But looking more recently, beginning with Mars Odyssey, every NASA Mars craft has been spectacularly successful (the MERs for instance, lasted some 15 times their design life & continuing to operate very well).

Phoenix has been built with the same mindset as the MERs, thoroughly tested, well managed & beautifully engineered. More like the NASA we know & love.

I am quietly optimistic that Phoenix will land successfully.

Once again ToSeek, thank you very much.

Andrew Brown.

N!ck · #**156** (**permalink**) 29-February-2008, 02:32 PM

So hold on.

What will the benefits from Phoenix's mission be exactly?

Is it something to do with dormant life on Mars?

I'm a little cold on the details.

antoniseb · #**157** (**permalink**) 29-February-2008, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N!ck

What will the benefits from Phoenix's mission be exactly?

I'm guessing by the name of the mission that it is looking for ashes that smell like cinnamon.

You can read more details on the official website here.

N!ck · #**158** (**permalink**) 29-February-2008, 02:51 PM

Just had a tiny read.

Something about curiosity.
Which is good

Although will this ever compliment the idea of colonising Mars?

I mean, I've heard we'll have to in due time.

antoniseb · #**159** (**permalink**) 29-February-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N!ck

will this ever compliment the idea of colonising Mars?

We need to know things about Mars, and we are picking the low hanging fruit right now. The Phoenix mission is looking for solid water on Mars. Hopefully what it tells us will help paint a bigger picture when joined with everything else.

Will it help to colonize Mars? Yes. Will the Mars Phoenix data be all that important by the time we actually do colonize Mars? probably not.

ToSeek · #**160** (**permalink**) 29-February-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3488

It was a double fiasco of the highest order, made worse by the fact that the Mars Climate Orbiter, was a fully functioning craft & was lost due to two teams who could not communicate the simple fact that one was working in imperial measurements & the other in Metric measurements. Talk about not getting your sums right.

The worst part of it for me was that the navigation team had some evidence that something was wrong, but management wouldn't listen to them.

That being said, it's worth keeping in mind that MCO and MPL combined cost significantly less than one rover - they were very cheap missions, so not nearly as much was lost as if an MRO or MER had failed.

ToSeek · #**161** (**permalink**) 29-February-2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N!ck

So hold on.

What will the benefits from Phoenix's mission be exactly?

Is it something to do with dormant life on Mars?

I'm a little cold on the details.

Here and here are the best discussion of the Phoenix science goals. However, I think the main thing to point out is that Phoenix is going to visit a Martian polar icecap, a part of Mars we've never investigated before. If you're concerned about colonization, one of the issues is how much water ice there is in the icecaps, and Phoenix will go a long way toward figuring that out.

3488 · #**162** (**permalink**) 01-March-2008, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToSeek

The worst part of it for me was that the navigation team had some evidence that something was wrong, but management wouldn't listen to me.

That being said, it's worth keeping in mind that MCO and MPL combined cost significantly less than one rover - they were very cheap missions, so not nearly as much was lost as if an MRO or MER had failed.

Hi ToSeek.

I did not realise that you were personally involved. Your statement backs up what I said, that management was weak. You noticed an error was made. Did anyone in management listen to you? No, they did not.

I can understand that they were very cheap missions, but were perfectly capable of successfully completing their missions, if management, listened to those, such as yourself in the know.

A shame that you were not management. If you were, I am sure we would have had two successful missions.

Are you involved with Phoenix? I was involved in the campaign to get Phoenix approved, after the loss of Polar Lander & I was also involved in the campaign in getting DAWN on the way to 4 Vesta & 1 Ceres.

I find it quite sad when members have to question the scientific value of this mission. This mission will reveal an enormous amount of new information, regarding the Martian arctic area in general & the landing site in particular.

Soil to ice ratios, composition, deposition history, general environment from ground level of the Martian high northern latitudes (something never done before), did life ever arise there, before the conditions became too harsh?

Not to mention the PanCam images showing the landscape. These will reveal the form of the surrounding area, clues as to what has happened there, monitoring clouds, hopefully filming the Martian Midnight Sun dipping to 2 degress above the northern horizon before rising again (good PR observation, but also scientifically useful regarding pinpointing the exact location of Phoenix & further information regarding the movements of Mars), etc.

This is a superb mission. Lets hope it works, fingers crossed, but Pheonix is a beautifully built, well tested & engineered craft, so I am quietly hopeful.

Andrew Brown.

ToSeek · #**163** (**permalink**) 01-March-2008, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3488

Hi ToSeek.

I did not realise that you were personally involved. Your statement backs up what I said, that management was weak. You noticed an error was made. Did anyone in management listen to you? No, they did not.

I can understand that they were very cheap missions, but were perfectly capable of successfully completing their missions, if management, listened to those, such as yourself in the know.

A shame that you were not management. If you were, I am sure we would have had two successful missions.

Are you involved with Phoenix? I was involved in the campaign to get Phoenix approved, after the loss of Polar Lander & I was also involved in the campaign in getting DAWN on the way to 4 Vesta & 1 Ceres.

I find it quite sad when members have to question the scientific value of this mission. This mission will reveal an enormous amount of new information, regarding the Martian arctic area in general & the landing site in particular.

Soil to ice ratios, composition, deposition history, general environment from ground level of the Martian high northern latitudes (something never done before), did life ever arise there, before the conditions became too harsh?

Not to mention the PanCam images showing the landscape. These will reveal the form of the surrounding area, clues as to what has happened there, monitoring clouds, hopefully filming the Martian Midnight Sun dipping to 2 degress above the northern horizon before rising again (good PR observation, but also scientifically useful regarding pinpointing the exact location of Phoenix & further information regarding the movements of Mars), etc.

This is a superb mission. Lets hope it works, fingers crossed, but Pheonix is a beautifully built, well tested & engineered craft, so I am quietly hopeful.

Andrew Brown.

Sorry, that was a mistake on my part - I meant to type "them" not "me" (and have since corrected it) - I can only plea a bad cold! I do work on space missions, but at Goddard, not JPL.

KaiYeves · #**164** (**permalink**) 01-March-2008, 08:47 PM

Quote:

I do work on space missions

And that's why you're the coolest guy on BAUT besides the BA.

ToSeek · #**165** (**permalink**) 02-March-2008, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaiYeves

And that's why you're the coolest guy on BAUT besides the BA.

Why, thank you, but I'm far from the only space professional here. NGC3314 (may have the number wrong) even helps to decide what Hubble should target.

KaiYeves · #**166** (**permalink**) 06-March-2008, 12:23 AM

Can it get any better? Phoenix is planned to touchdown on Mars on International Day of the Jedi! Star Wars and NASA! May the Force be with you, Phoenix!
Hey, "Phoenix Force"! Sweet, now we've got X-Men, too!

3488 · #**167** (**permalink**) 06-March-2008, 12:43 AM

Hi every one,

I think you will all be interested in this.

MRO HiRISE view of frosted ground in Phoenix landing ellipse.

I am really looking forward to this mission immensely.

Andrew Brown.

01101001 · #**168** (**permalink**) 06-March-2008, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3488

MRO HiRISE view of frosted ground in Phoenix landing ellipse.

Patterned ground on a planet most of you are more familiar with (from US Permafrost Association glossary)

01101001 · #**169** (**permalink**) 27-March-2008, 12:38 AM

University of Arizona Phoenix Mars Mission

Quote:

Landing Countdown
60 days 00 hours 00 minutes 00 seconds

If you liked the crusty old Daniel Maas MER Mission CGI animation movie(s), there are some similar animations by Maas Digital of these more current Phoenix Mission events at: Phoenix Mission Gallery :: Videos and Animations (QuickTime, some in 100-megabyte HD versions, from last year or earlier). I think the still image above is from one of the animations.

Quote:

Phoenix Launch Animation
Phoenix EDL Animation

Landing time (approximate):
May 25, 1637 PDT
May 25, 1937 EDT
May 25, 2337 UTC

60 days to landing

antoniseb · #**170** (**permalink**) 27-March-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 01101001

Landing time (approximate):
May 25, 1637 PDT
May 25, 1937 EDT
May 25, 2337 UTC

Out of curiosity, do you know if that is the landing time, or the time that we will find out about the landing here on Earth (several light-minutes away)?

01101001 · #**171** (**permalink**) 27-March-2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antoniseb

Out of curiosity, do you know if that is the landing time, or the time that we will find out about the landing here on Earth (several light-minutes away)?

No idea. It is extracted from the University of Arizona Landing Countdown clock.

My guess is that it is actual time, a moment in mission elapsed time, extracted from a timeline schedule, and we'll get our confirmation later at whatever lightspeed allows.

But, in brief searches I haven't found a mission event timeline, so that countdown clock was all I could estimate a landing time on. It all depends on how they decided to implement that feature.

Code includes

Code:

so.addVariable("label","LANDING");
//so.addVariable("yr",2008);
//so.addVariable("mon",5);
//so.addVariable("day",25);
//so.addVariable("hr",16);
//so.addVariable("min",36);

But, like you asked, what is that time? (And my estimate is a second off because my computer clock was not well-synced when I was figuring.)

matthewota · #**172** (**permalink**) 01-April-2008, 02:50 AM

I recently watched JPL's latest video on the Phoenix. My impression is that it is such a high-risk entry and landing procedure, that they spent a lot of time explaining what can go wrong, not what can go right. Then again, the last time we landed successfully on Mars using the rocket method was with Viking in 1976...

01101001 · #**173** (**permalink**) 01-April-2008, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 01101001

My guess is that it is actual time, a moment in mission elapsed time, extracted from a timeline schedule, and we'll get our confirmation later at whatever lightspeed allows.

I found a confirmation. University of Arizona Phoenix FAQ

Quote:

Phoenix will land at approximately 4:36pm Pacific Daylight Time (7:36pm Eastern Daylight Time). We hope to receive the first signal from the lander approximately 17 minutes later at 4:53pm PDT (7:53pm EDT).

01101001 · #**174** (**permalink**) 01-April-2008, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthewota

Then again, the last time we landed successfully on Mars using the rocket method was with Viking in 1976...

I believe I read that airbags were ruled out because of the greater mass of Phoenix, over MER and Pathfinder.

Landing thrusters worked decades ago. There's no reason they should work worse using more recent technology.

That's not to say landing on Mars is easy. It's not, evidenced by the failures, and highlighted by the recent topic The Mars Landing Approach: Getting Large Payloads to the Surface of the Red Planet, summarized: enough atmosphere to make it dangerous; not enough atmosphere to make it easy.

(Oh, original video cited was probably the dramatic Phoenix Mars Lander: Entry Descent and Landing, with interviews, at NASA Video Gallery. Interesting is the pure CGI, without talking heads, Phoenix EDL Animation video at Phoenix Videos and Animations.)

01101001 · #**175** (**permalink**) 11-April-2008, 05:01 AM

NASA Phoenix News: NASA Spacecraft Fine Tunes Course for Mars Landing

Quote:

NASA engineers have adjusted the flight path of the Phoenix Mars Lander, setting the spacecraft on course for its May 25 landing on the Red Planet.

"This is our first trajectory maneuver targeting a specific location in the northern polar region of Mars," said Brian Portock, chief of the Phoenix navigation team at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. The mission's two prior trajectory maneuvers, made last August and October, adjusted the flight path of Phoenix to intersect with Mars.

NASA has conditionally approved a landing site in a broad, flat valley informally called "Green Valley." A final decision will be made after NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter takes additional images of the area this month.

Planetary Society Weblog: Phoenix Targets Green Valley

Quote:

All previous maneuvers targeted it to Mars more generally. But now it's aimed at a specific spot on Mars, one picked out through exhaustive examination of data from Mars Global Surveyor, Mars Odyssey, Mars Express, and Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. They still have the option to nudge the landing zone around a bit, depending upon the outcome of analysis of further Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter images to be taken this month.

For review, the Green Valley area:

Google Mars for context, centered on landing spot, with the prominent Heimdall Crater mid-right.

NASA Phoenix multimedia page highlights the landing target.

01101001 · #**176** (**permalink**) 28-April-2008, 01:07 AM

University of Arizona Phoenix Mars Mission

Quote:

Landing Countdown
27 days 23 hours 30 minutes 00 seconds

Landing time (approximate):
Sunday, May 25, 1636 PDT
Sunday, May 25, 1936 EDT
Sunday, May 25, 2336 UTC

Planetary Society Weblog: The Phoenix landing site

Quote:

I have just posted an update to the Phoenix section of our website giving some basic location and description information on the Phoenix landing site. Right now the landing site is a large ellipse -- an oval 100 by 19 kilometers in size.
[...]
The ellipse is stretched much more in the down-track direction than the across-track direction because of uncertainties in what Mars' weather holds in store for the incoming lander -- a tiny change in atmospheric temperature or density can cause the lander to decelerate more or less rapidly, which results in a landing seconds (and kilometers) earlier or later than the predicted time.

(So if you should eventually come to hear some BAUT member blaming a weird non-mainstream variable gravity effect for Phoenix's missing the target bullseye, remember: the answer is blowing in the wind.)

Nice countdown and milestone information may be had at an D. Muller's site: Phoenix Mars Landing Real-Time Simulation

Go, Phoenix!

Just under 4 weeks to landing

01101001 · #**177** (**permalink**) 05-May-2008, 12:36 AM

University of Arizona Phoenix Mars Mission

Quote:

21 days 00 hours 00 minutes 00 seconds

Phoenix Mars Mission blogs: Ready?

Quote:

May 02, 2008 - We have now completed our ORT10 dress rehearsal. It’s been a long road getting from taking a few days to just get through one day on Mars a year ago to being able to execute day by day the activities we need to do everyday for the mission. Are we 100% ready? I hope not! We are well prepared, I’m told by those with many missions under their belts we’re the best prepared team they’ve ever seen. But if we knew everything that would happen, knew all the answers, there wouldn’t be much point in going. This is a mission of discovery, and I hope no matter how prepared we are that Mars has a few surprises in store.[...]

Landing time (approximate):
Sunday, May 25, 1636 PDT
Sunday, May 25, 1936 EDT
Sunday, May 25, 2336 UTC

3 weeks to landing

aurora · #**178** (**permalink**) 06-May-2008, 12:33 AM

Does anyone know if they will broadcast the landing live on NASA TV?

I looked at the schedule for special events here:
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasat..._Breaking.html
and did not see it listed. Does that mean they will not broadcast it?

I was really looking forward to watching the first signal come down.

01101001 · #**179** (**permalink**) 06-May-2008, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aurora

Does anyone know if they will broadcast the landing live on NASA TV?

I don't know, but I can't imagine NASA TV not covering the event. I don't think they've ever missed such something like this since NASA TV was born.

I'd bet anything.

Edit: Planetary Society: Phoenix Landing Events

Arizona State is planning on NASA coverage:

Quote:

Event Address: Moeur Building
Arizona State University
210 E. Orange Mall
Tempe, AZ 85281
Date& Time: Sunday, May 25, 2008 (time to be determined)
Cost: Free

Description: Live NASA TV feeds of the landing to be narrated by ASU's Mars Space Flight Facility engineers and scientists.

All the regional events appear to be planning on NASA coverage.

BPCooper · #**180** (**permalink**) 06-May-2008, 08:32 PM

Yes, they will. Coverage should start at 6pm EDT.

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