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  #211 (permalink)  
Old 25-May-2008, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
I read CNN's Phoenix Mission article with interest, but balked at the following:

""I love airbags," said Weiler. "We got three success stories with airbags, but you don't invent science by continuing to do what you know how to do."

Engineers did not use airbags on Phoenix because the lander is simply too big and heavy for them to work properly. And NASA will have to figure out how to land reliably with thrusters and landing legs in order to fly even larger spacecraft in the future."

The Russians have been using parachuted palat deliver system for years whose rate of descent during it's final few feet is arrested. They simply hang a weight "depth guage" over the side, and when it touches the ground, the rockets fire, slowing the palat to a near stop by the time it touches down.

Simple side-looking doppler radar combined with a steerable parachute can easily halt sideways movement. Finally, a laser ground mapping device can be used in the parachute descent phase to find a rockless and level piece of land on which to touchdown.

This isn't rocket science - these applications have been around for years!
Technically, it is rocket science (there being rockets involved and all) and the Russian's record of successfully landing objects on Mars isn't exactly what one would call "stellar." The tricky part is figuring out something which will work reliably and consistently millions of miles from Earth. Even NASA (with their much better record of reaching Mars) hasn't quite cracked this nut.

It would be nice, however, if they looked at a standardized Mars delivery system for all their probes. That would allow economies of scale to kick in and reduce the costs of sending things to Mars.
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  #212 (permalink)  
Old 25-May-2008, 01:50 PM
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I am confusal about something from the Saturday briefing. the panel first explained the rationale for the choice of site: The ice is likely to have preserved a record of ancient climate/life when/if Mars had a warmer past. And that Phoenix will detect. But the last question from the press about the origin of this tundra surface was explained as a refreeze of meltwater from an impact.

They didn't quite finish the train of thought. Is there a contradiction between these two things. In other words, would the impact erase the the historical evidence of life in the meltwater?
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  #213 (permalink)  
Old 25-May-2008, 04:23 PM
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6 p.m. ET on Sunday, NASA begins live coverage of the Phoenix Lander
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  #214 (permalink)  
Old 25-May-2008, 07:25 PM
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On the air but stream is not too good.
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Old 25-May-2008, 09:12 PM
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I moved binary man's most recent post (with a list of all the links) to a new thread intended specifically for coverage of Phoenix from now through landing. This thread should be reserved for discussions not associated with EDL.
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  #216 (permalink)  
Old 26-May-2008, 12:47 AM
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NASA LIVE....

The entry info is being broadcast live on the NASA Channel right now, which is Channel 283 on Direct TV.
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Old 26-May-2008, 12:52 AM
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ground velocity 60 meters per second, in the process of landing now...
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Old 26-May-2008, 12:53 AM
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altitude 1100 meters
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Old 26-May-2008, 12:53 AM
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10 meters
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Old 26-May-2008, 12:54 AM
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touchdown signal detected
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Old 26-May-2008, 12:55 AM
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NASA says phoenix has landed.
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Old 26-May-2008, 12:58 AM
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Phoenix has landed. I wonder if there was a big welcoming crowd of little green men ... behind the rocks of course?
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Old 26-May-2008, 12:59 AM
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Wooooohooooo!!! Great Job everyone.
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Old 26-May-2008, 01:04 AM
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University of Arizona:

Quote:
Phoenix Has Landed!
May 25, 2008

Pasadena -- A NASA spacecraft landed in the Martian arctic today to begin three months of examining a site chosen for the likelihood of having frozen water within reach of the lander's robotic arm.

Radio signals received at 4:53 p.m. Pacific Time confirmed that the Phoenix Mars Lander had survived its difficult final descent and touchdown 15 minutes earlier. In the intervening time, those signals crossed the distance from Mars to Earth at the speed of light.

Mission team members at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.: Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver; and the University of Arizona, Tucson, cheered confirmation of the landing and eagerly awaited further information from Phoenix later tonight.
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Old 26-May-2008, 01:10 AM
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Here's a live NASA feed:

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
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  #226 (permalink)  
Old 26-May-2008, 01:11 AM
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Congratulations to participants mentioned (and not mentioned):

Quote:
The Phoenix Mission is led by Principal Investigator Peter H. Smith of The University of Arizona, supported by a science team of CO-Is, with project management at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and development partnership with Lockheed Martin Space Systems. International contributions are provided by the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus Denmark; the Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute.
Edit: Other participants and details of roles are here: University of Arizona Phoenix Mission

Emily Lakdawalla's live chat is up: UStream.
Edit: Emily went off air after a few questions but will return in about 15 minutes.
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  #227 (permalink)  
Old 26-May-2008, 01:18 AM
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Once the KVH-1A1 high-gain is deployed, Phoenix will immediately begin broadcasting Bob Newhart records to see if Mars has a sense of humor.
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  #228 (permalink)  
Old 26-May-2008, 01:25 AM
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I've started a new thread for Mars surface operations here.
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  #229 (permalink)  
Old 11-November-2008, 09:25 PM
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Yeah, now that the action on Mars is probably over, this topic is revived -- if only to note in this coda the different topics that documented the Phoenix mission.

My own preference is that the first results would go into their own special Phoenix Mars Results topic when they start to flow.

===

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToSeek View Post
I've started a new thread for Mars surface operations here.
The Phoenix Mars extended mission is over. Long live the Phoenix Mars mission.

Let's see that crunched data. Where are those first papers?

AGU Fall Meeting (December 15-19, 2008)

RIP, sweet Phoenix. So long and thanks for all the zeroes and ones!



Index of Phoenix current-events topics:
Phoenix mission (this topic) (2005 February 28)
Phoenix Mars mission countdown and launch thread (2007 July 11)
Phoenix EDL: The Seven Minutes of Terror thread (2008 May 25)
Phoenix early surface activities (2008 May 25)
Phoenix on Mars (2008 June 1)
Phoenix on Mars: Extended Mission (2008 August 25)
Phoenix Mars Results (2008 December 11)
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  #230 (permalink)  
Old 19-November-2008, 10:57 PM
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A few collated images.

Andrew Brown.
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  #231 (permalink)  
Old 20-November-2008, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101001

The Phoenix Mars extended mission is over. Long live the Phoenix Mars mission.

Let's see that crunched data. Where are those first papers?

AGU Fall Meeting (December 15-19, 2008)

RIP, sweet Phoenix. So long and thanks for all the zeroes and ones!
There are also papers in press in Icarus and Science. I imagine there will be quite a few extended abstracts at the LPSC in March - or there would be if NASA staff were allowed to go to conferences (they have just been banned from doing that apparently by a Congressional ammendment).

Jon
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Old 20-November-2008, 08:15 AM
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- or there would be if NASA staff were allowed to go to conferences (they have just been banned from doing that apparently by a Congressional ammendment).

Jon
Huh? Why is this?
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  #233 (permalink)  
Old 20-November-2008, 09:05 AM
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Huh? Why is this?
Apparently the congressman is/was a doctor, and since most medical conferences are jolliesrather than serious conferences, seems to think that cutting conference expenses for NASA emplyees looks like a good idea. It can then bignose himself about how much taxpayers $$ he has saved.

I have got this from three NASA employees in the past week, it is having a serious impact on their travel and conference plans.

Edit - see http://scienceblogs.com/catdynamics/...ravel_in_2.php
Last edited by JonClarke; 20-November-2008 at 09:31 AM..
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  #234 (permalink)  
Old 20-November-2008, 10:01 AM
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Apparently the congressman is/was a doctor, and since most medical conferences are jollies rather than serious conferences, seems to think that cutting conference expenses for NASA emplyees looks like a good idea. It can then bignose himself about how much taxpayers $$ he has saved.
That's the dumbest thing I've heard this week. Medical conferences are not jollies.
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  #235 (permalink)  
Old 20-November-2008, 09:16 PM
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That's the dumbest thing I've heard this week. Medical conferences are not jollies.
Not all of them. I have hear of a few at ski or tropic beach resorts whose programs have finished by midday. At least where I live. As a result the health profession regards conferences as something to be done in your own time at your own expense.

In my profession conferences are something work expects you to do and pays your expenses. The worst ones run from 8 am to 8 pm.

Jon
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  #236 (permalink)  
Old 28-November-2008, 10:38 PM
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It may already be biting. On the 12th I downloaded 44 Phoenix abstracts from the AGU conference web site. Now there are only six.

Jon
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  #237 (permalink)  
Old 28-November-2008, 11:16 PM
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You mean they've cancelled? That's sad Jon. It just seems so utterly bizarre.
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Old 29-November-2008, 01:43 AM
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You mean they've cancelled? That's sad Jon. It just seems so utterly bizarre.
I can't think of any other reason why the titles would disappear.

I am wondering what will happen to the LPSC in March, as generally half the presentations are by NASA people.
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Old 29-November-2008, 02:03 AM
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I can't think of any other reason why the titles would disappear.

I am wondering what will happen to the LPSC in March, as generally half the presentations are by NASA people.
Silly me! I was searching the 2007 fall meeting, not the 2008 one!

Apologies!
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  #240 (permalink)  
Old 29-November-2008, 02:25 AM
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That's ok.

So what's the status with this year's conference? (March I mean) All clear?
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