Ok, so we have to revise the time between the early flash and the second flash to 123 msec. That means the projectile could have travelled another 1254.6 m before the dust plume started to emerge. Or do you think the delay time is consistent with "implosive, excavating and funnelling" action as claimed by the experts?

Cheers.

P.S. The images are unreadable by my computer software, any solutions?

The experts are saying there is 'layering', which I would assume means that when you get a bright flash after burrowing for 125ms, there was some kind of change in density or resiliency. I can't argue with that. I guess we will never really know.

You are not missing much by not seeing the images, just three very dim spots of light prior to the flash.

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jwj

It's ok not to know. We should try harder to find out.

Some Lunar and Planetary Science Conference (LPSC) 2006 Deep Impact-talk documents (PDF format):

A DEEP IMPACT MISSION CONTRIBUTION TO THE INTERNAL STRUCTURE OF JUPITER FAMILY COMETARY NUCLEI: THE TALPS OR “LAYERED PILE” MODEL

DEEP IMPACT: THE FIRST SECOND

TEMPEL 1: SURFACE PROCESSES AND THE ORIGIN OF SMOOTH TERRAINS

ASYMMETRY OF GASEOUS CO2 AND H2O IN THE INNER COMA OF COMET TEMPEL 1

GRAVITY OR STRENGTH? AN INTERPRETATION OF THE DEEP IMPACT EXPERIMENT

DEEP IMPACT: EXCAVATING COMET TEMPEL 1

WATER ICE ON TEMPEL 1: BEFORE, DURING, AND AFTER THE IMPACT EVENT

Others at: LPSC 2006: SPECIAL SESSION: RESULTS FROM THE DEEP IMPACT MISSION

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0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...

The 250,000 Ton Punch

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Also, just curious, why are there two x-ray peaks in their graph - rotation?

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board! Author: duh.

"The Sun, with all the planets revolving around it, and depending on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as though it had nothing else in the universe to do..." Author: Galileo supposedly.

Here is how this is reported on the BBC website

This extra water being given off, is it enough to change it's trajectory The told us this would be safe

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Moderations in purple

Fame, glory adventure, a cyber warrior craves not these things.

By my reckoning, even the 250,000 metric tons of water is less than a billionth of the total mass of the comet. It shouldn't make a significant difference.

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I only mention this, because one of the ideas to steer rouge comets off of collision course was to use a large reflector to create a jet to nudge it onto a different heading.

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Moderations in purple

Fame, glory adventure, a cyber warrior craves not these things.

And the 250000 tonnes total over the impact-related outburst duration, should be compared to the normal non-impacted rate of 16000 tonnes per day.

The 250,000 Ton Punch

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After seeing the plots, this is quite an incredible claim: All there is, is a shift in the background, a shift that never returned to the original baseline. They are integrating all the noise in this background shift, and calling it Deep Impact water. There is not even a hint of a Gaussian distribution. Baseline shifts can be anything from and including the solar wind, to calibration errors, to a dustier environment that may or may not contain copious amounts of moisture.

From Sticks reference:
No, they don't see anything "coming off", 'coming off' implies a rise, a distribution, a pattern, not a shift from the expected baseline.

Bad science!

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jwj

It's ok not to know. We should try harder to find out.

I am curious why their graph shows two peaks. Is this to be expected? Is the valley due to a leeward orientation (in the shadow)?

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board! Author: duh.

"The Sun, with all the planets revolving around it, and depending on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as though it had nothing else in the universe to do..." Author: Galileo supposedly.

Good question - looking at the timing, the two peaks are both associated with the original plume. When I looked at the data, I assumed both of these peaks were picked up by other observers as well, because they are in the time frame very near to the impact. My guess is that as the heavier particles were pulled back by gravity, the lighter and gaseous elements became more exposed - the distribution should be more gaussian, but since the sampling times are hours apart, the true nature of the distribution is lost. If the conclusion of the Liecester scientists is based upon this second peak, and not the shift in the baseline, the conclusion is much more robust.

But if I am interpreting the articles correctly, they are doing a mole count in the baseline shift, AFTER the peaks desolved - they are integrating a much larger area than the initial (second) peak, and that is not valid. It is like measuring the grains of moisture in the air after a tyre burst, and saying "Oh, there is more moisture in the air now than there was before the tyre burst - that tyre must have been full of water."

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jwj

It's ok not to know. We should try harder to find out.

Interesting. I would have guessed they would have taken their peak megawatt value and equate it to tonnage, but I am a novice on such things, admittedly.

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board! Author: duh.

"The Sun, with all the planets revolving around it, and depending on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as though it had nothing else in the universe to do..." Author: Galileo supposedly.

Scientists Gaining Clearer Picture of Comet Makeup and Origin

Scientists are getting their best understanding yet of the makeup of comets – not only of the materials inside these planetary building blocks, but also of the way they could have formed around the Sun in the solar system’s earliest years.

When NASA’s Deep Impact spacecraft slammed into comet Tempel 1 on July 4, 2005, the collision sent tons of pristine materials into space and gave astronomers from around the world, using ground- and space-based telescopes, the first look “inside” a comet. From that sample, over the past several months, scientists who used the imaging spectrometer on NASA’s Spitzer Space Telescope have refined their models of what a comet is made of and how it comes together.

"Spitzer’s spectral observations of the impact at Tempel 1 not only gave us a much better understanding of a comet’s makeup, but we now know more about the environment in the solar system at the time this comet was formed" - Dr. Carey Lisse of the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory.

Read more

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Title: Spitzer Spectral Observations of the Deep Impact Ejecta
Authors: C. M. Lisse, J. VanCleve, A. C. Adams, M. F. Ahearn, Y. R. Fernández, T. L. Farnham, L. Armus, C. J. Grillmair, J. Ingalls, M. J. S. Belton, O. Groussin, L. A. McFadden, K. J. Meech, P. H. Schultz, B. C. Clark, L. M. Feaga, J. M. Sunshine

Spitzer Space Telescope imaging spectrometer observations of comet 9P/Tempel 1 during the Deep Impact encounter returned detailed, highly structured 5 - 35 µm spectra of the ejecta. Emission signatures due to amorphous silicates and carbon, and crystalline silicates, carbonates, phyllosilicates, PAHS, water gas/ice, sulphides were found. Good agreement is seen between the ejecta spectra and the material emitted from comet C/1995 O1 (Hale-Bopp) and the circumstellar material around the young stellar object HD100546. The atomic abundance of the observed material is consistent with solar and C1 abundances, and the D/G ratio was determined to be = 1.3. The presence of the observed mix of materials requires efficient methods of annealing amorphous silicates, and mixing of high- and low-temperature phases over large distances in the early proto-solar nebula.

Rea more (subscription, PDF)

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`Irony` actually does mean `metal like`...

We discussed on this forum before the observations of Lisse et.al. that the Deep Impact mission showed carbonates and clays within Temple I.
The results have now been published in Science:

Scientists Gaining Clearer Picture of Comet Makeup and Origin
by Staff Writers
Laurel MD (SPX) Jul 16, 2006
"From its orbit, Spitzer's infrared spectrograph closely observed the materials ejected from Tempel 1 when Deep Impact's probe dove into the comet's surface. Astronomers spotted the signatures of solid chemicals never seen before in comets, such as carbonates (chalk) and smectite (clay), metal sulfides (such as fool's gold), and carbon-containing molecules called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, commonly found in barbecue grills or automobile exhaust on Earth.
"Lisse said the clay and carbonates were surprises because they typically require liquid water to make - and liquid water isn't found in the regions of deep space where comets form. Also surprising was the superabundance of crystalline silicates, material formed only at red-hot temperatures found inside the orbit of Mercury."
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Sc...rigin_999.html

Spitzer Spectral Observations of the Deep Impact Ejecta.
Published Online July 13, 2006
Science DOI: 10.1126/science.1124694
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten...ract/1124694v1


Bob Clark

Hum,
see also this

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`Irony` actually does mean `metal like`...

Thread containing last two posts merged with this thread.

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