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Old 19-August-2005, 08:57 PM
JHotz JHotz is offline
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Default How tall a building can be built with todays technology

The space launch catapult is a popular topic. Launch from a mountain is often part of the equation. I have read that a one-mile tall building is quite possible. So just how tall a launch structure could be built?
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Old 19-August-2005, 09:23 PM
publiusr publiusr is offline
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there was a concept for a mile high building.

The Burj Dubai is worth a search. It will surpass that ugly "Freedom Tower" concept.

Petronus already surpassed WTC
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Old 19-August-2005, 09:31 PM
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No building is going to aproach the height of a decent-sized mountain. Find a mountain near the equator that has an ocean (or largely-unpopulated area) nearby to the east, and you have your ideal launch site both from a delta V perspective and from a safety perspective.
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Old 19-August-2005, 09:33 PM
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IIRC, Frank Lloyd Wright proposed a 2500 foot building in Chicago, but the idea was scrapped after someone calculated that there would be a severe bottleneck on the elevators. It would take 3 hours or some such for everyone to get to their floors and then 3 more hours at the end of the day for everyone to get back to ground level.
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Old 19-August-2005, 10:21 PM
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You can get a mile or two up with a passive structure. Buildings are already starting to use active and semi-active stabilization. If you want something tall and thin, you'll need active stabilization to go up a few miles. With advanced materials and active stabilization I've read suggestions that a building could be tens of miles high.

Beyond that you would need something like the space fountain:

http://www.answers.com/topic/space-fountain

which we aren't going to build soon. But in theory, it is possible.

Better have a good transportation system though. As jfribrg mentioned, conventional elevators won't do. You probably would need a system where multiple cars can share a tube, and can shift between tubes - a true vertical transportation system. Turbolifts, anyone?
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Old 19-August-2005, 10:25 PM
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How about this, a 1Km high solar power tower!

http://www.wired.com/news/technology...,66694,00.html


(That's it, computer going off now, will return after the invasion of Florida, bye for now folks! )
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Old 20-August-2005, 04:17 AM
JHotz JHotz is offline
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Default How about building the launch on a mountain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saluki
No building is going to aproach the height of a decent-sized mountain. Find a mountain near the equator that has an ocean (or largely-unpopulated area) nearby to the east, and you have your ideal launch site both from a delta V perspective and from a safety perspective.
The launch structure could be built on a mountain. Maybe Mauna Loa in Hawaii would work.
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Old 20-August-2005, 05:31 AM
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Aren't the Hawaiian islands too geologically active for that?
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Old 22-August-2005, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfribrg
IIRC, Frank Lloyd Wright proposed a 2500 foot building in Chicago, but the idea was scrapped after someone calculated that there would be a severe bottleneck on the elevators. It would take 3 hours or some such for everyone to get to their floors and then 3 more hours at the end of the day for everyone to get back to ground level.
That's the real problem: beyond a certain height, so much of a building is taken up with infrastructure that it's no longer cost-effective. I read somewhere that a mile-high building would only be practical if people could be persuaded to wait as long for an elevator as they do for a subway train.
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Old 22-August-2005, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by publiusr
Petronus already surpassed WTC
Certainly, but one of the WTC buildings was the world's tallest only for a month, as it was quickly eclipsed by the Sears Tower. I've lost track of these things, I don't know if the new building in Taipei is open.
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Old 22-August-2005, 09:17 PM
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A buildiing can be as tall as you want, providing you have the money to spend on constructing it. We know enough about load bearing structures and their geometry's to build them as high as we want.

It's just not practical to build them that tall.
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Old 22-August-2005, 11:46 PM
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Some levels could have homes, schools, parks, and stores. People would stay near their home levels most of the time and come out of the building only for vacations. There could be bridges to other tall buildings nearby. Rich people on the upper floors would come and go by helicopter.

Will tall hotels superstitiously skip the 666th floor like they skip the 13th floor now?
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Old 23-August-2005, 01:11 AM
JHotz JHotz is offline
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Default Well the build a bunch of observatories up there

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sock Munkey
Aren't the Hawaiian islands too geologically active for that?
I do not think so. There are many observatories there and there equipment is expensive and sensative. In fact the street lights in the town on the big island are special yellow to minimize light pollution for the observatories.
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Old 23-August-2005, 02:03 AM
Senor Molinero Senor Molinero is offline
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Dare I say it "The sky's the limit". (insert groans and rimshot here)
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Old 23-August-2005, 12:10 PM
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Using 20 ton stone blocks like the pyramid, and an even bigger base area, what's the theoretical absolute maximum height that the ancients could have reached a la Tower of Babel, assuming no manpower, stones and construction problems.
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Old 23-August-2005, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck
Will tall hotels superstitiously skip the 666th floor like they skip the 13th floor now?
Either that, or perhaps the 616th floor.

Quote:
A University of Birmingham (England) professor, working from a third-century Greek text of the New Testament's Book of Revelation, found that the number representing the Antichrist is probably not 666, but 616...
Quote:
Originally Posted by montebianco
Quote:
Originally Posted by publiusr
Petronus already surpassed WTC
Certainly, but one of the WTC buildings was the world's tallest only for a month, as it was quickly eclipsed by the Sears Tower. I've lost track of these things, I don't know if the new building in Taipei is open.
Adding to the confusion is how you decide to define "tallest". If you defined it as highest rooftop, then Petronus was tallest. If you included spires, then the Sears Tower was tallest. If you limited the height to that of the highest usable floor, then WTC was tallest. [I don't know how Taipei fits into this list either.] Also, this only includes "buildings" --- I think there are radio towers (some with observation decks partway up) that are taller than all of these.
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Old 23-August-2005, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: How about building the launch on a mountain

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHotz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saluki
No building is going to aproach the height of a decent-sized mountain. Find a mountain near the equator that has an ocean (or largely-unpopulated area) nearby to the east, and you have your ideal launch site both from a delta V perspective and from a safety perspective.
The launch structure could be built on a mountain. Maybe Mauna Loa in Hawaii would work.
Yeah, but imagine the cost of lugging all those construction materials up a mountain.
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Old 23-August-2005, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: Well the build a bunch of observatories up there

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHotz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sock Munkey
Aren't the Hawaiian islands too geologically active for that?
I do not think so. There are many observatories there and there equipment is expensive and sensative. In fact the street lights in the town on the big island are special yellow to minimize light pollution for the observatories.
Most of the gelogic activity is on the big island of Hawai'i. Which is where the Keck observatory is located, yes. However, it's a short, squat building, which makes it resistant to earthquakes and such in ways that a tall, thin building would not be.

And, frankly, there aren't that many viable, dormant volcanoes/mountains to build on there.
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Old 23-August-2005, 09:07 PM
JHotz JHotz is offline
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Default Re: How about building the launch on a mountain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saluki
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHotz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saluki
No building is going to aproach the height of a decent-sized mountain. Find a mountain near the equator that has an ocean (or largely-unpopulated area) nearby to the east, and you have your ideal launch site both from a delta V perspective and from a safety perspective.
The launch structure could be built on a mountain. Maybe Mauna Loa in Hawaii would work.
Yeah, but imagine the cost of lugging all those construction materials up a mountain.
Good point

Muana Loa has heavy use roads.

It would depend on how much the launch system was used as the cost could be spread out over all the launches. If there were only a thirty launches then maybe not, but if there were 5 million launches maybe it would be worth it. With the size of the structure we are talking about. The acceleration would probable begin far below the mountain. If part of the accelerator were built first perhaps it could be adapted to transport the building material up the mountain.
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Old 23-August-2005, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: Well the build a bunch of observatories up there

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesh
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHotz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sock Munkey
Aren't the Hawaiian islands too geologically active for that?
I do not think so. There are many observatories there and there equipment is expensive and sensative. In fact the street lights in the town on the big island are special yellow to minimize light pollution for the observatories.
Most of the gelogic activity is on the big island of Hawai'i. Which is where the Keck observatory is located, yes. However, it's a short, squat building, which makes it resistant to earthquakes and such in ways that a tall, thin building would not be.

And, frankly, there aren't that many viable, dormant volcanoes/mountains to build on there.
I think the original post meant to refer to Mauna Kea, which is where the obsrevatories are. mauna kea is probably not extinct, but it is near the end of activity and it may be thousands of years between eruptions.

Mauna Loa, while almost as tall as Mauna Kea, and a much more massive mountain, is still considered active and erupts every 20 years or so.

See here for more:
http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/
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Old 24-August-2005, 08:34 PM